Anyone successfully growing or have healthy Japanese Maples & Chaenomeles in SoCal, 10b?

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Shohin
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I planted a bunch of JMs and flowering-quinces in the ground this Fall (https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/planting-in-the-ground-this-fall-for-garden-niwaki.47359/).

I am concerned if they will make it or not, continue to grow and be healthy, etc., because it gets quite dry and hot here in the summer (I'm in OC)... and also we only get 300-400 chill hours per winter.
Maybe they have a better chance in the ground than in pots, irdk. Also, planted them by a north facing wall and neighbor's house for afternoon shade.

Anyone successfully growing, or have had healthy, Acer Palmatums and Chaenomeles in SoCal 10b, LA, OC or SD? (I'm not inland btw, Riverside, etc. ...it's much hotter there)
It can be in ground, garden plants, potted plants, bonsai, etc.
(not Tridents, since I know those are completely different and super vigorous compared to APs)

Would really love to see some pics if you have some.
I guess I'm asking to maybe find a little reassurance and gain more confidence; since I'm a little worried for them in 10b.
 

Gustavo Martins

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I have had a JM in a 11 region. All good so far. But I don’t get extreme hot like in California. So yes my specimen can take mild winter but I have no clue about high temperature. Summer max here is around 28-30 Celsius. Also not dry. High relative humidity throughout the year.
 

Firstflush

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I’m in OC too. Yard JMs everywhere. Morning sun only or between yards where they only get a few hrs of mid day sun.
I got my 5 gal standard green Palmatum from a nursery close by where they are accustomed to local weather conditions, not a norcal import.

Side note, any JMs i see planted in any combo of south or west facing locations are fried by early early summer, then look like garbage the remainder of the year. I’m about 6 miles from the beach.
 

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Shohin
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I’m in OC too. Yard JMs everywhere. Morning sun only or between yards where they only get a few hrs of mid day sun.
I got my 5 gal standard green Palmatum from a nursery close by where they are accustomed to local weather conditions, not a norcal import.

Side note, any JMs i see planted in any combo of south or west facing locations are fried by early early summer, then look like garbage the remainder of the year. I’m about 6 miles from the beach.

Oh, that is nice to hear!! Any pics? How big and old are they?

Yeah, I also planted mine in b/n houses (sideyard) and/or north facing walls. The only one that isn't, is planted underneath and east of a lemon tree (red dragon maple).

I too am about 6-8 miles from the beach; so, I'm not inland desert at all.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Check your water pH, and protect from the Santa Anas!

I know some bonsai enthusiasts in SoCal who never had any success with JM until they got a water softener (with potassium chloride to refresh the water softener elements). However I think if you use an acidic soil mix and acid fertilizer, you may be ok. You will not be ok just using tap water if it is pH 8.0 or higher. I don't know how many JM I killed by planting them in pumice/lava and just using SoCal irrigation water on them. One year I truly killed 10 different cultivars.

JM can take full sun in SoCal until about April or May. What they can't take is a hot dry wind. At the minimum, be ready to put them in an area protected by 60% or greater shade cloth - not just overhead but on the sides as well. Otherwise their leaf margins will crisp (if you are lucky) or all the leaves may burn up (if you are not). They can survive one round of leaf drop... but two will usually kill them.
 

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Shohin
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Thanks for the tips! My PH is about 6.8-7, hoping that is okay.

Yeah, I still use the fert you recommended a while back... Best 9-9-9 acidic/sulfer & iron.

I wonder if they'll do better in the ground than in nursery pots though. They are all now in the ground (by north facing walls and/or between houses/neighbor... for afternoon shade).
 

Bonsai Nut

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I wonder if they'll do better in the ground than in nursery pots though. They are all now in the ground (by north facing walls and/or between houses/neighbor... for afternoon shade).

Not unless your ground is better than mine was :) Mine was crappy clay soil with zero organic matter, no drainage, and a tendency to solidify into an impermeable mass every rain :)
 

Ruddigger

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My ground growing quince do way better than my in ground Japanese Maples, they dont seem to mind full sun at all, even when it was 115 for 3 days in a row this summer.
 

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My ground growing quince do way better than my in ground Japanese Maples, they dont seem to mind full sun at all, even when it was 115 for 3 days in a row this summer.

I agree. I was able to put Japanese quince in my landscape with no sun protection. In fact, at one point I had a JQ in a nursery pot, and it rooted out through the drain holes, and when I moved the pot to plant the quince in my landscape, the roots sprouted!
 

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Shohin
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My ground growing quince do way better than my in ground Japanese Maples, they dont seem to mind full sun at all, even when it was 115 for 3 days in a row this summer.

Veeery interesting! Wow.

Please tell more... how old and big are your quinces and JMs? How many years in the ground?

Which cultivars of both species you have?

I wanna see pics, hehe.
 

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Shohin
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I agree. I was able to put Japanese quince in my landscape with no sun protection. In fact, at one point I had a JQ in a nursery pot, and it rooted out through the drain holes, and when I moved the pot to plant the quince in my landscape, the roots sprouted!

Oh wow! That is good to know! I look forward to beautiful flowers in the future!

I guess I just gotta worry about the JMs then, lol.
 

Ruddigger

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Veeery interesting! Wow.

Please tell more... how old and big are your quinces and JMs? How many years in the ground?

Which cultivars of both species you have?

I wanna see pics, hehe.

I have a bloodgood and a laceleaf weeping maple garden trees. They both fry every year. My chinese quince are seedlings from matt ouwinga that I planted this spring. They grew to about 3’ tall and are now about 1” thick at the base. You can see some trident seedlings and a korean hornbeam there too, all from Matt and planted at the same time, and they all did great. I also got a white pine from him that didnt make it past the summer.

I do have one plain Acer Palmatum in development that didnt burn much at all though. Really strange, because it was heavily root pruned from a giant nursery can and put in a grow box this spring.

image.jpg
 

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Firstflush

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No pics. 15-20 foot or better with canopies as big. 20 years old plus easy. Nice healthy trees, it can be done.
I don’t think these folks are managing their water PH but highly likely they are using a nice acidic fert.
 

63pmp

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A good website for you.
I really disagree with that article. Adding gypsum to anything makes a solution hard, as by definition, hard water contains calcium. Adding gypsum will help with sodicity and improve soil structure, different thing altogether. Additionally, 5 drops of vinegar in a bucket of alkaline water will do nothing to adjust the pH, even if it was rain water it would do nothing.
 

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Shohin
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I really disagree with that article. Adding gypsum to anything makes a solution hard, as by definition, hard water contains calcium. Adding gypsum will help with sodicity and improve soil structure, different thing altogether. Additionally, 5 drops of vinegar in a bucket of alkaline water will do nothing to adjust the pH, even if it was rain water it would do nothing.

Yeah... I've never heard of gypsum neutralizing hard water (just Ph). Interesting.

But, I specifically choose/search for soil amendments with gypsum in it to loosen/aerate the compacted clay soil, so the roots have a better chance of penetrating. I know the gypsum effect on clay soil is only temporary (a year at best); but the first year is most important in establishment for newly planted plants anyways.
Sometimes, I buy a bag of pure pulverized gypsum, to loosen clay soils or flush sodium from potted plants.

I guess I am doing things in the article already. Like planting in north and/or east facing locations.

Never heard of Pro-Tekt (nor that other fertilizer).
They seem quite intriguing... but I don't want to use liquid/mixing ferts at all. Waaay too much work to use a 2gal jug, mixing 20-30x for all the plants, running back and forth from bib to mixing and then back to plants (and doing this weekly! no bueno!)... been there done that... I'd rather have the plants die, lol.
I now strictly only use slow release and pelletized - easy/quick to spread and use.
Pro-Tekt seems gimicky too...irdk.
I'm sure that Grow 7-9-5 is nice, esp with all those micro nurients... but, again, I don't wanna use liquid/mixed ferts.

I've been using Best Iron 9-9-9 with 10.5% sulfer and 11% iron. It's been working great... but, has no micro nutrients and is also synthetic. Kinda worried it may have too much sodium/salts. Also, I don't think it improves soil structure.

I've been researching Gro Power products (I've never used yet), because Bjorn mentioned it in a podcast and he likes it a lot (he uses the 12-8-8 cakes though). It is full organic and they have a pelletized/spreading version for improving soil structure, fixing compacted clay/adobe soils and super salty conditions.
It also states it has a "bacterial soil stimulator" in it.

Gro Power products is also humus based (instead of synthetic binders) and has about 15% humic acids.
Are humic acids a good source of lowering PH and acidifying your soil??
Is it a similar effect as the sulfer used in acidic ferts? (like the Best 9-9-9 10.5% sulfer that I've been using)
Or, are humic acids totally different than sulfer acids in lowering PH?

This is the product I am interested in and might try out next Spring (instead of the Best 9-9-9 that I've been using):

 

A. Gorilla

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I really disagree with that article. Adding gypsum to anything makes a solution hard, as by definition, hard water contains calcium. Adding gypsum will help with sodicity and improve soil structure, different thing altogether. Additionally, 5 drops of vinegar in a bucket of alkaline water will do nothing to adjust the pH, even if it was rain water it would do nothing.

For tasks unrelated to plants, I was just recently adding small amounts of vinegar to water and testing the ph.

It does change.

 

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