Anyone with a pressure tank in their irrigation setup?

andrewiles

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I want to experiment with lowering my tap pH this summer. Preferred way seems to be muriatic acid in a holding tank. But I need to pressurize the water again after that. For general garden use it looks like many people use well pumps plus pressure tanks to provide this function.

I'm curious if anyone has experience with this for their home or garden and if so, what your setup looks like.
 

sorce

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Sounds like a lot of effort for a system a whole lot shakier than rain barrels of enough capacity.

Sorce
 

penumbra

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Sounds like a lot of effort for a system a whole lot shakier than rain barrels of enough capacity.

Sorce
For sure nothing beats rain water, but it would take at least a couple dozen rain barrels to water all my plants. For anyone with the capacity to collect enough rainwater, it is the way to go. When I am a bit more healed up I plan to get my rain barrels going again for my azaleas. We had a new gutter system installed a couple months ago, so I need to set up a new collecting site when I am able.
 

andrewiles

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Yeah, I simply don't have enough room for rain barrels of sufficient size. And out here our summers are almost completely dry. Plus, I'd like more pressure than what I can get from gravity alone, which is about zero in my flat yard.
 

ShimpakuBonsai

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A few months ago I installed a rainwater collection system of 3 rain barrels (around 750 liter capacity) and I use a 230V Seaflow waterpump to water my trees with a gardenhose.
When the barrels are full I can water my trees for around 1 week to be empty again so ideally I need some more barrels (or an IBC container) for more capacity.
 

Pitoon

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I want to experiment with lowering my tap pH this summer. Preferred way seems to be muriatic acid in a holding tank. But I need to pressurize the water again after that. For general garden use it looks like many people use well pumps plus pressure tanks to provide this function.

I'm curious if anyone has experience with this for their home or garden and if so, what your setup looks like.
I would imagine the setup would be no different than a home on a well using a pressurized system. The pressure tanks are not that expensive.....it's the jet pump that will put you back several hundred dollars depending on how many HP you need.
 

andrewiles

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Look at injectors instead of pressurized tanks, not cheap, but more precise.
Yeah, I've been reading up on this. Really appealing. I like the idea of a using a dual head injector that can apply a low dose fertilizer and muriatic acid. Handle two problems at once.

Just wish they weren't gazillions of dollars.
 

Gary McCarthy

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Look at injectors instead of pressurized tanks, not cheap, but more precise.
There are a few threads on here about these injector systems. They are not all gazillions dollars. Use the search function.

I have a Dosatron which is what Ryan @ Bonsai Mirai uses and recommends. It is a little pricey but nothing is too good for my trees :)
 

andrewiles

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Cool. Which model do you use? I was looking at doing two MiniDos in series.

I've searched the site. In my defence I didn't know to search for injection systems before I started this thread. I did see that Jonas experimented with a MiniDos as well and seemed pleased with the results, minus some practical caveats. @Leo in N E Illinois also made some comments in one thread on alkalinity that I need to understand better before I jump onto the pH lowering bandwagon. I'll dig into that tomorrow.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@andrewiles - You are from Redmond WA, west of the Cascades. Your water quality should be excellent, absolutely no reason to need to mess around with your pH. West of the Cascades, your water is quite soft, low in dissolved solids, which means pH is a trivial problem.

Municipalities are required by law to buffer the pH of municipal water to a pH above 7.6 most aim for 8.0 When your total alkalinity is relatively low, less than 600 mg/liter as calcium carbonate, majority of plants have no trouble dealing with the pH.

I don't have a lot of time to re-type everything I have written on pH versus total alkalinity. Do look up some of my earlier essays. But to sum it up, except in a very few areas, pH is not the issue that needs correcting. It's a red herring. Total alkalinity is the horticultural significant water parameter. Total alkalinity is a measure of the BUFFER CAPACITY of the water. It is a measure of the amount of acid or base required to change the pH.

Water with a low total alkalinity, would require very little acid to lower the pH and very little base to raise the pH. Water with a high total alkalinity would require large amounts of acid to lower the pH, and large amounts of base to raise pH.

Plants can buffer the pH of the water film around the root tips and surrounding soil particles to their preferred pH by actively secreting buffers. This is the reason to not "over pot", in the right size pot, say half inch larger than the root ball, the roots can buffer the entire soil mass to the ideal pH. In an oversized pot, the roots can be overwhelmed if the pH of the soil is far from perfect. An example, measured in Sumatra, an orchid seedling growing on bare limestone rock, the water running down the rock cliff face, pH was 8.3 give or take. The pH of the water film surrounding the root tip of the orchid in contact with this rock and water was 5.4 measured by micro pH probe by James Asher of Unv Michigan.

Point is, plants, within reason, buffer their own root environment into their own preferred pH range, and do so quite efficiently.

IF the total alkalinity of your irrigation water is less than 600 mg/liter as Calcium Carbonate, for almost all the species of trees used for bonsai you will have zero problems. Carnivorous plants want water less than 100 mg/liter, Rhododendrons and azalea want less than 250 mg/lit. West of the the Cascades, in places like Redmond, I believe you have water that ranges from 60 mg/liter to 180 mg/liter. Check with your local municipal water supplier, their annual water report should include the average measured total alkalinity. If the report only includes total dissolved solids, total alkalinity can never exceed total dissolved solids. Alkalinity will always be less than dissolved solids.

So what I am saying, your concerns about pH are misguided. pH is not the problem. You are adjusting something that does not need to be adjusted.
 

Gary McCarthy

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Cool. Which model do you use?
I have the Dosatron model D25F. I think it's their basic model with a set dosage of 1 oz per gallon. Their other systems have several settings so you can set the dosage to what you want. But, those systems get PRICEY.

I think I paid $300 for mind. I was lucky to find a seller on eBay that saved me $100 from buying it from the comp[any directly.
 

andrewiles

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@andrewiles - You are from Redmond WA, west of the Cascades. Your water quality should be excellent, absolutely no reason to need to mess around with your pH. West of the Cascades, your water is quite soft, low in dissolved solids, which means pH is a trivial problem.

Municipalities are required by law to buffer the pH of municipal water to a pH above 7.6 most aim for 8.0 When your total alkalinity is relatively low, less than 600 mg/liter as calcium carbonate, majority of plants have no trouble dealing with the pH.

I don't have a lot of time to re-type everything I have written on pH versus total alkalinity. Do look up some of my earlier essays. But to sum it up, except in a very few areas, pH is not the issue that needs correcting. It's a red herring. Total alkalinity is the horticultural significant water parameter. Total alkalinity is a measure of the BUFFER CAPACITY of the water. It is a measure of the amount of acid or base required to change the pH.

Water with a low total alkalinity, would require very little acid to lower the pH and very little base to raise the pH. Water with a high total alkalinity would require large amounts of acid to lower the pH, and large amounts of base to raise pH.

Plants can buffer the pH of the water film around the root tips and surrounding soil particles to their preferred pH by actively secreting buffers. This is the reason to not "over pot", in the right size pot, say half inch larger than the root ball, the roots can buffer the entire soil mass to the ideal pH. In an oversized pot, the roots can be overwhelmed if the pH of the soil is far from perfect. An example, measured in Sumatra, an orchid seedling growing on bare limestone rock, the water running down the rock cliff face, pH was 8.3 give or take. The pH of the water film surrounding the root tip of the orchid in contact with this rock and water was 5.4 measured by micro pH probe by James Asher of Unv Michigan.

Point is, plants, within reason, buffer their own root environment into their own preferred pH range, and do so quite efficiently.

IF the total alkalinity of your irrigation water is less than 600 mg/liter as Calcium Carbonate, for almost all the species of trees used for bonsai you will have zero problems. Carnivorous plants want water less than 100 mg/liter, Rhododendrons and azalea want less than 250 mg/lit. West of the the Cascades, in places like Redmond, I believe you have water that ranges from 60 mg/liter to 180 mg/liter. Check with your local municipal water supplier, their annual water report should include the average measured total alkalinity. If the report only includes total dissolved solids, total alkalinity can never exceed total dissolved solids. Alkalinity will always be less than dissolved solids.

So what I am saying, your concerns about pH are misguided. pH is not the problem. You are adjusting something that does not need to be adjusted.
Really appreciate the explanation. Yes, I've now gone through more of your other posts and dug through some material on the internet. My local tap pH is around 8, but alkalinity is indeed very low. I started looking into this because I've measured local soil solutions from my collected larches at pH of 4 and I'm moving them to pure pumice with neutral pH. Wanted to reduce the shock...

Anyways, it seems the only reason to lower the pH would be to remove any extra cost to the plants to do this themselves in the root zone, esp. these collected trees that do not initially have many roots. Might still play around with something, both for pH and fertigation, but good to see it's not a necessitity in my case.
 
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