Anyone with info on growing ash as bonsai?

jeanluc83

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Call-out to anyone that has some experience with growing Ash as bonsai.

I just moved within the last month. I finally got a bit of a chance to walk the property to see if there is anything worth collecting. I found something that has some potential that I believe to be a white Ash, fraxinus americana.

There doesn't seem to be much info on growing Ash as bonsai. I did find that they are in the same family as lilac and olive. The tree is in the back breaker range so I'm hoping they can handle major root reduction and trunk chops to make it worth collecting.

If I get a chance I'll try to get a picture of the tree in question.
 

jeanluc83

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The emerald ash borer is in my area too. At least containerized trees can be treated fairly easily using systemics.

I'm not too concerned about leaf size. The tree I'm eyeing should be big enough. What I could find mentioned defoliation to reduce leaf size.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I pulled a few ash rafts from the dirt last winter, not knowing what I was doing.
Ash didn't flinch on being reduced on both ends and leafed out nicely in spring after being frozen solid.
I mistook them for oak, so I dumped them as soon as they turned out to not be oak.
The wood didn't seem very durable though.

That was about the entire experience I have with it.
 

AlainK

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Not easy. Better aim for medium to large bonsai.

Leaves can be reduced by defoliation (once or twice in the season) though.

Interesting species because they heal well, but not that easy to shape.
 

Paulpash

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I always ask myself 'what exceptional features does a tree have in order for me to spend time, energy and space developing it to get a place on my bench'?

eg interesting

-bark
- leaf colour (spring / autumn)
- habit
- winter image / ramification
- leaf shape / size

Our English Ash, Fraxinus Excelsior, does not have any features that make my list. Does the American Ash have more redeeming features?
 

Aiki_Joker

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Bark of the European Ash gets quite interesting over time. The epicormic buds are proffuse, suckering gives a lot of character. But also reverse taper if not kept on top of. Alot of pests in native spp in every country though:
EU Ash.jpg
There is a good expo' on the care and venerability here:
 

Maros

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I always ask myself 'what exceptional features does a tree have in order for me to spend time, energy and space developing it to get a place on my bench'?

eg interesting

-bark
- leaf colour (spring / autumn)
- habit
- winter image / ramification
- leaf shape / size

Our English Ash, Fraxinus Excelsior, does not have any features that make my list. Does the American Ash have more redeeming features?
Fraxinus ornus in my collection. To me it has all from your bucket list. But it depends on taste as well.
DSC_9146.jpg
 

jeanluc83

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The tree I have scoped out has mature bark, some good movement, some taper and a reasonably good nabari. But it will require a large chop and carving.

It will be a job and a half to collect. The root ball will probably be in the 36" range. If I'm lucky i might get it closer to 24".

If I do end up collecting it the next question is should it go right into a grow box or should I put it into a grow bed for a couple of years? I'm a fan of going right into a grow box but this one is going to need another couple of years to grow out a new leader. It might be better to put it into a grow bed.

Alternately I could put it into a box for a year or two to build a new root system then back into the ground to speed development.

I'll get some pictures tomorrow if I have time.
 

Aeast

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Jeanluc83,
I've often wondered this myself. I see many around this area that have great trunks and very nice bark as well. I just haven't collected any because of the large compounds leaves. I do have a few marked for collection this spring so we'll see how it goes.
 

jeanluc83

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Here is the victim. It is growing in a swampy area so I'm hoping that it will be an easy collection. If I'm lucky there will be some good feeder roots close to the base. it will be messy though.

IMG_20181125_140341299.jpg IMG_20181125_140356521_PORTRAIT.jpg IMG_20181125_140409956_PORTRAIT.jpg

The taper is more evident in person. The nebari is also much east to see. In the pictures it blends in with the leaves.
 

Maros

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That is one of the best Ash I have seen - maybe the english variety is not that suited to bonsai?
Thanks Paul. This is Fraxinus ornus (probably) collected from wild. I do not know all the ash species possibly growing in England but I think most common is Fraxinus ornus and Fraxinus Excelsior. There could be other for sure and there are maybe some hybrids (?). But as ashes are members of Oleaceae family. It means they are in the same family with olives and lilacs. Generally, it is common that members of the family behave similarly. So they heal wounds well, grow very strongly, they tend to collect well (tried to collect ornus in late spring with leaves without problems), they are able to minimize foliage when planted in a pot and ramified. So to me, they are worth trying.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I'm no expert, except at pulling volunteer ash seedlings out of my garden. The American species, locally I have green ash, Fraxinus pennsylvanica, and to my eye it is too coarse in branch habits for any but the largest bonsai styles. Most of the North American native Fraxinus are similar, at least from what I have seen. I have not seen all 65 species, but the 4 or 5 species of Faxinus I have seen did not grab my attention as good bonsai choices.

@jeanluc83 - The images that you posted have nice bark, but the trunk is straight and boring with insufficient taper to make a tree less than 5 feet tall. I would pass on that particular specimen. If you chop low, the next segment of trunk will have to grow out to 12 or more feet to get the diameter of the next section large enough to be believable. It will take years to ''build a tree'' from this example. I suggest you look for a better tree.

To be worth collecting, a tree should have movement, or interesting features beyond just nice bark, and these features should be in the first 8 inches of the height of the tree (within 20 cm of the ground). But these are my preferences. I have been guilty of not following my own advice. As a result I have a number of sticks in pots, or logs in pots, that have been around for years and still do not look like anything other than a log in a pot.

I do have a couple seedlings of Sorbus, the flowering ash. Also called mountain ash. These seem to have a little more bonsai potential than Fraxinus. The flowers and berries are nice. Flowering Ash is not a perfect species for bonsai, but I think it is better than Fraxinus.
 

jeanluc83

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In this tree it is really only the first 10" or 12" that is interesting. The rest is a telephone pole. My main reason for considering collection is for a carving project. I think with some imagination it could become an interesting tree.

I would also like to get some experience with the species. White ash is a very common tree that is not used in bonsai much.
 

Aiki_Joker

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Here is the victim. It is growing in a swampy area so I'm hoping that it will be an easy collection. If I'm lucky there will be some good feeder roots close to the base. it will be messy though.

View attachment 218581 View attachment 218582 View attachment 218583

The taper is more evident in person. The nebari is also much east to see. In the pictures it blends in with the leaves.
Guarantee feeder roots close to the trunk by wrenching or severing roots one year by puting a spade through the roots near the trunk and collecting after the growing season :)
 

defra

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my ash experience
here we have fraxinus excelcior so different one but still ash and its pretty invasive
theres a pretty big one close to my house and every year allot of seeds germinate trough out my garden
i got three growing in the ground to build up a trunk and nebari
they grow so insanely fast :D
i chop them every year and wounds about 3-4 cm in diameter almost fully heal over in one season
ill go snap some pics when i got time to.


as leaf reduction i think is no problem especially not with larger size tree's
its a guess but look
i planted one seedling in a small pot and wanna keep it small as mame project
ash1.jpg
spring 2018


ash2.jpg
July

2018

ash3.jpg
july 2018

the leaves didnt get any bigger in this year
i will keep monitoring this and also plant one in a pot with more space to see if little space for the roots is such a big influence on the leaf size
 
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I ripped a hitchhiker ash out of a nursery container from a myrtle I had bought back in sept. Threw it into a pot and cut it back. I'll probably chop it low mid spring.

Its mature bark has great texture. Will be fun to play with im sure.

DSC02076.JPG
 
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