Apple tree collection

[CWTurner]

Please see the Anti-fiddling thread
CW

 

[aml1014]

Please see the Anti-fiddling thread
CW

Already have commented lol I know I shouldn't mess with it but I'm glad I did otherwise those mealys really could have taken off.

Aaron

 

[aml1014]

I need some help everyone. This one has been out of my coldhouse for 3 days in the sun, now I'm getting root suckers, but there are lots of new roots growing all around the pot. Still no budds on the main trunk.

So my question is, should I remove the root suckers in case they are stealing energy from the stump, or leave them and wait for the tree to budd?

Root suckers
And fresh roots clear on the other side if the container.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Aaron

 

[aml1014]

A little over 1 month later and still no buds.
The suckers have popped up everywhere but the cambium in the main trunk is still lime green all the way to the chop.

This one sucker has really taken off and is easily a foot tall now, so I'm debating attempting an approach graft. I fear if I wait till next spring the trunk may not be alive anymore.
Opinions?

Aaron

 

[barrosinc]

I usually cut off suckers as they appear

 

[aml1014]

I usually cut off suckers as they appear

I was heavily advised by many people to leave them as the tree appears to be extremely stressed.

Aaron

 

[barrosinc]

I was heavily advised by many people to leave them as the tree appears to be extremely stressed.

Aaron

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/big-collected-apple.23348/#post-358507 On that thread they propose to pinch suckers...

 

[aml1014]

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/big-collected-apple.23348/#post-358507 On that thread they propose to pinch suckers...

I've kept up to date on that thread, the only difference is this tree is much older, larger, and hasn't budded on the trunk at all yet. So my worry is if I remove all the suckers, it'll just flush more suckers and steal even more energy from the main trunk. That's why I like the idea of an approach graft, if it'll take.

Aaron

 

[Giga]

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/big-collected-apple.23348/#post-358507 On that thread they propose to pinch suckers...

You can't always apply the same technique to a different tree, even if it's the same species. Every tree tells you different things. This tree has no buds on the trunk, cutting/pinching the sucker on this one will most likely kill or stress the roots more then they already are.

If you do a approach graft- you need to use a different sapling or another tree and is vigorous. Though you will get different foliage if it's a different variety. IF you try it with those sucker, be careful, it's harder to do it with vegetative growth, and I honestly wouldn't do it on this tree. As the new growth is fragile and can just wither away above the graft.

 

[aml1014]

You can't always apply the same technique to a different tree, even if it's the same species. Every tree tells you different things. This tree has no buds on the trunk, cutting/pinching the sucker on this one will most likely kill or stress the roots more then they already are.

If you do a approach graft- you need to use a different sapling or another tree and is vigorous. Though you will get different foliage if it's a different variety. IF you try it with those sucker, be careful, it's harder to do it with vegetative growth, and I honestly wouldn't do it on this tree. As the new growth is fragile and can just wither away above the graft.

Looks like I may need to just leave it alone still. I have a few apples that are 2 yeas old so they have a woody stem but they are short and I'd have to devise a way to support the small pot while I attempt the graft.

Ugh this tree is stressful.

Aaron

 

[Giga]

Also for the future - tree's that are weaker like hornbeam,beech etc... or like this tree(even though it's a hardy apple) because of the dead section on the trunk. I tend to collect yamadori with more truck then's needed(IE a cut further up the trunk line). This may set you back a year if you need to rechop, BUT you have a better chance of buds popping and then you can work on getting them where you want. Kinda something that come with time doing this and being able to look at the tree and "seeing" whats needed.

 

[aml1014]

Also for the future - tree's that are weaker like hornbeam,beech etc... or like this tree(even though it's a hardy apple) because of the dead section on the trunk. I tend to collect yamadori with more truck then's needed(IE a cut further up the trunk line). This may set you back a year if you need to rechop, BUT you have a better chance of buds popping and then you can work on getting them where you want. Kinda something that come with time doing this and being able to look at the tree and "seeing" whats needed.

I chopped it around 26" tall for that reason, I was hoping it would bud ANYWHERE in the trunk. Plus this was how big it had to be to fit in my car.

Aaron

 

[M. Frary]

I don't think a graft will work. You have nothing up top growing now.
Personally I would toss it. I think it's done to tell the truth.

 

[Dav4]

I don't think a graft will work. You have nothing up top growing now.
Personally I would toss it. I think it's done to tell the truth.

My thoughts, too. A successful approach graft requires active growth of both the stock and the scion and will only work if you've got growth above the area on the stock to be grafted. As far as pinching back the suckers, I guess I'd leave it alone. The trunk will either push buds or it won't.

 

[aml1014]

This morning when watering, I noticed something on this apple. It's not budding as far as I can tell, but the stump is literally starting to swell up. It's hard to tell in the pictures, but the cambium is turning green and starting to move across the dead wood. I really hope this thing buds for me one day.
But this gives me some hope!!!

Aaron

 

[Giga]

Here's to hoping!

 

[rockm]

It may, or may not. It means that the trunk is alive. This can persist for some time, until buds pop, or until the trunk dies. I've had both happen. It is a good sign though, by and large. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Timbo]

Also for the future - tree's that are weaker like hornbeam,beech etc... or like this tree(even though it's a hardy apple) because of the dead section on the trunk. I tend to collect yamadori with more truck then's needed(IE a cut further up the trunk line). This may set you back a year if you need to rechop, BUT you have a better chance of buds popping and then you can work on getting them where you want. Kinda something that come with time doing this and being able to look at the tree and "seeing" whats needed.

Hornbeams are weak? I've chopped the roots close to the base on most of the ones I collected this year even well after leaf out due to the high temps we had up here early spring, all 7 of them budded out all over, not super fast but they are growing. My biggest was 4 1/4- 4 1/2 inch trunk. Bonsai-south chops the roots much closer than I do. Hophornbeams are a bit diff.....my 2 1/2 inch trunk didn't bud out this year after being collected in the fall. Wouldn't it be more stress on the tree to have to rechop again next year when you have branches/buds than when you have a clean chop?

 

[M. Frary]

Hornbeams are weak? I've chopped the roots close to the base on most of the ones I collected this year even well after leaf out due to the high temps we had up here early spring, all 7 of them budded out all over, not super fast but they are growing. My biggest was 4 1/4- 4 1/2 inch trunk. Bonsai-south chops the roots much closer than I do. Hophornbeams are a bit diff.....my 2 1/2 inch trunk didn't bud out this year after being collected in the fall. Wouldn't it be more stress on the tree to have to rechop again next year when you have branches/buds than when you have a clean chop?

I gave up on hornbeam. For now. The problem with them is they grow pretty slow and if there are no low branches you will be waiting forever for new leads to get to a big enough size to cut back again. If you have one with a 4 inch trunk and it has no branches low to use for a new trunk line you might want to pack a lunch. You're going to be there a while waiting for one to grow to size. Not just a few years but like a decade.
I do keep my eyes peeled for ones with low branches. The problem is they grow under other trees and shoot for light so all branching is up top. I've looked at hundreds too.

 

[Timbo]

The problem I've had so far is a few are bare in the middle 1/3, but that may be my fault with too high of a chop, the others I think are in OK spots. You have to watch the suckers and profuse low growth and weed them out IMO. Yeah I think I will stick it in the ground in the fall. I just don't have a problem with lack of buds, I actually have to pick off several to keep the light on the leaves. I even murdered a triple trunks roots to cut out a 4th trunk, it's budding out pretty well. No harm done if I have to ignore it for 5 years, I have a beech tree I rescued from evil movers, which I also wouldn't call weak just VERY slow growth. Anyways, you are right branches don't thicken up as fast, I was just responding to putting them in the weak category.