Aqua bonsai
- Thread starter Danielm
- Start date
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Welcome to Crazy!
Just throw a goldfish in there!
Sorce
Just throw a goldfish in there!
Sorce
Danielm
Yamadori
Lol just asking ?
JosephCooper
Shohin
Water bonsai is... weird...
I love it but it's way beyond my ability
Check this out: https://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/aqua-bonsai
I love it but it's way beyond my ability
Check this out: https://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/aqua-bonsai
Danielm
Yamadori
Yeah that’s the website which I got those snaps from but can’t find the fertiliser which apparently took 4 years of research ?
Danielm
Yamadori
Danielm
Yamadori
My consolation prize ... just bought from Heron Bonsai
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Maybe it's good to check up on some hydroponics people do. This seems to be basic aquaponics. Getting the water to stabilize is hard, you'll probably need to create a water based microbial ecosystem on itself. Once you're past that point, it's just watering and keeping it stable. I haven't seen it in bonsai, but I have done it, and seen it done with tonnes of vegetables.
The right place for fertilizer is either fish poop, or hydroponic feed with added microbes (usually found in pond stores and mycorrhizal fungi shops).
If somebody could find out the ideal nutrient values for a healthy tree, it would be easy to get water adjusted to that same nutrient level and pH.
The real issue here, is preventing algae from growing and competing for nutrients.. To do that you'll need a non-transparent container, which renders the entire system useless when it comes to design. I don't believe the water-bonsais in the pics have been there for long, the water looks way too clean compared to a aquaponic system receiving light. Those usually look like a green goo within weeks.
The right place for fertilizer is either fish poop, or hydroponic feed with added microbes (usually found in pond stores and mycorrhizal fungi shops).
If somebody could find out the ideal nutrient values for a healthy tree, it would be easy to get water adjusted to that same nutrient level and pH.
The real issue here, is preventing algae from growing and competing for nutrients.. To do that you'll need a non-transparent container, which renders the entire system useless when it comes to design. I don't believe the water-bonsais in the pics have been there for long, the water looks way too clean compared to a aquaponic system receiving light. Those usually look like a green goo within weeks.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Nice Olive. You purchased a nice consolation prize.
Aqua Bonsai - is just hydroponics by another name. Check your local hydroponics shop, look for the 2 component liquid fertilizers, Component A will have the nitrates and calcium supplements, component B will have the sulfur as a small but crucial part of the nutrients. Sulfur and Calcium, when they meet in solution form an insoluble rock known as gypsum. So they are added in separate solutions, usually one in one week, the other the next week. For bonsai I would use about half the dose rates recommended for marijuana, or hot peppers, the ''stand in'' for marijuana in grow shops in regions where marijuana is illegal. Why grow shops? Marijuana is an economic crop where they have invested the time and money into researching the details of hydroponics. They have the ''current'' information.
Honestly, plants can not read the label, you could just use any modern formulation of water soluble fertilizer, it doesn't have to be labeled for Aqua Bonsai, or Bonsai or Marijuana for that matter. Nitrogen is nitrogen, and with a few exceptions, it doesn't matter if the fertilizer lists your particular plant. Just don't over do the concentrations. You want to keep nutrients dilute for bonsai, you don't want rank, excessively vigorous, rapid growth. By modern fertilizer I mean one with nutrients in the proportions that the plants actually use. Ignore any information from RBG at Kew, the last time they updated their fertilizer info was 1887. An ideal modern fertilizer would be roughly 12-0.8-2 with Calcium around 12 and Mg around 3 if your water has low total dissolved solids. If you water is heavy in lime, high total dissolved solids, around 600 ppm, you want a lower rate of calcium and magnesium, perhaps 4 and 1. The additional nutrients needed include iron, manganese, copper, zinc, boron, & selenium, the full compliment of micro nutrients.
Sulfur is a needed nutrient, if your Nitrogen is 12, the sulfur should be around 3. Sulfur is very available in the environment. If trees are grown outdoors in urban and suburban environments, acid rain will contain enough sulfur that you may never have to worry about it. Most clay soils have plenty of sulfur. It is in synthetic, inorganic mixes, and indoor or greenhouse growing situations, then sulfur supplementation should be done. Once every second or third week you can use Epsom salts, from the local chemist's, it is Magnesium Sulfate, normally sold as a soaking solution for feet, or other aching joints. About 5 ml by volume per 4 liters of water is a nice, a dilute but effective dose. Use this as your source of sulfur nutrient.
Exceptions: there are exceptions for extreme calcifuge species (calcium hating species) for example blueberries (Vaccinium sp) and carnivorous plants. One can also tweak fertilizer for azalea - it is a ''mild'' calcifuge. This topic should be saved for the ''deep dive'' either into Vaccinium or Azalea. Another situation if you have very hard water. Over 1100 ppm total dissolved solids. For very hard water you start by avoiding calcium supplementing fertilizers. Again, there is more, but we'll save that for the deep dive into a specific problem.
Aqua Bonsai - is just hydroponics by another name. Check your local hydroponics shop, look for the 2 component liquid fertilizers, Component A will have the nitrates and calcium supplements, component B will have the sulfur as a small but crucial part of the nutrients. Sulfur and Calcium, when they meet in solution form an insoluble rock known as gypsum. So they are added in separate solutions, usually one in one week, the other the next week. For bonsai I would use about half the dose rates recommended for marijuana, or hot peppers, the ''stand in'' for marijuana in grow shops in regions where marijuana is illegal. Why grow shops? Marijuana is an economic crop where they have invested the time and money into researching the details of hydroponics. They have the ''current'' information.
Honestly, plants can not read the label, you could just use any modern formulation of water soluble fertilizer, it doesn't have to be labeled for Aqua Bonsai, or Bonsai or Marijuana for that matter. Nitrogen is nitrogen, and with a few exceptions, it doesn't matter if the fertilizer lists your particular plant. Just don't over do the concentrations. You want to keep nutrients dilute for bonsai, you don't want rank, excessively vigorous, rapid growth. By modern fertilizer I mean one with nutrients in the proportions that the plants actually use. Ignore any information from RBG at Kew, the last time they updated their fertilizer info was 1887. An ideal modern fertilizer would be roughly 12-0.8-2 with Calcium around 12 and Mg around 3 if your water has low total dissolved solids. If you water is heavy in lime, high total dissolved solids, around 600 ppm, you want a lower rate of calcium and magnesium, perhaps 4 and 1. The additional nutrients needed include iron, manganese, copper, zinc, boron, & selenium, the full compliment of micro nutrients.
Sulfur is a needed nutrient, if your Nitrogen is 12, the sulfur should be around 3. Sulfur is very available in the environment. If trees are grown outdoors in urban and suburban environments, acid rain will contain enough sulfur that you may never have to worry about it. Most clay soils have plenty of sulfur. It is in synthetic, inorganic mixes, and indoor or greenhouse growing situations, then sulfur supplementation should be done. Once every second or third week you can use Epsom salts, from the local chemist's, it is Magnesium Sulfate, normally sold as a soaking solution for feet, or other aching joints. About 5 ml by volume per 4 liters of water is a nice, a dilute but effective dose. Use this as your source of sulfur nutrient.
Exceptions: there are exceptions for extreme calcifuge species (calcium hating species) for example blueberries (Vaccinium sp) and carnivorous plants. One can also tweak fertilizer for azalea - it is a ''mild'' calcifuge. This topic should be saved for the ''deep dive'' either into Vaccinium or Azalea. Another situation if you have very hard water. Over 1100 ppm total dissolved solids. For very hard water you start by avoiding calcium supplementing fertilizers. Again, there is more, but we'll save that for the deep dive into a specific problem.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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These acrylic containers do look fun. There is nothing wrong with ''playing'' with them. Try it, it is different. If you like the look, go for it. And there is nothing wrong with a mixed collection, some more traditionally potted trees, and some in these acrylic cubes.
The Art of Bonsai, the raising and training of the the tree is only one component of bonsai. DISPLAY is also a very significant part of bonsai. Purpose of Display is to provide a sense of place and time and contribute to the emotional content of a bonsai. Bonsai is not a literal miniature model tree. Bonsai is more abstract, the goal is to create the emotional response one would have to a tree in nature, it is not a scale model of a tree. So - do these acrylic containers carry a message? Do they suggest a time, or season? Winter? Summer? If you were doing a three point display, tree, companion plant and a scroll, what scene would the acrylic container make sense? I'm not saying it can not be done, I'm just saying it will not be ''easy'' to use these types of containers for bonsai display. You will run into people who will be vehemently insisting that these acrylic cubes have no place in bonsai. They have the ''rules'' of display in mind fueling their ire. I'm not one of those, but I do understand the argument.
5 or more years ago, there was a wonderful show in Indonesia, organized by Robert Stevens and many others, where the purpose was deliberately non-traditional. The show really attempted to bring bonsai into the Modern Art Scene. There were displays were this acrylic container might make sense. So I am not dismissing these as not being bonsai, rather I am just pointing out that this will be far from traditional.
I know myself, I do not have a well developed sense of art and design. I have to go to the Japanese ''rules'' of design, because they are written out, easy for me to access. I could not successfully use a Modern Art approach, because I don't have the artistic sense to pull it off.
The Art of Bonsai, the raising and training of the the tree is only one component of bonsai. DISPLAY is also a very significant part of bonsai. Purpose of Display is to provide a sense of place and time and contribute to the emotional content of a bonsai. Bonsai is not a literal miniature model tree. Bonsai is more abstract, the goal is to create the emotional response one would have to a tree in nature, it is not a scale model of a tree. So - do these acrylic containers carry a message? Do they suggest a time, or season? Winter? Summer? If you were doing a three point display, tree, companion plant and a scroll, what scene would the acrylic container make sense? I'm not saying it can not be done, I'm just saying it will not be ''easy'' to use these types of containers for bonsai display. You will run into people who will be vehemently insisting that these acrylic cubes have no place in bonsai. They have the ''rules'' of display in mind fueling their ire. I'm not one of those, but I do understand the argument.
5 or more years ago, there was a wonderful show in Indonesia, organized by Robert Stevens and many others, where the purpose was deliberately non-traditional. The show really attempted to bring bonsai into the Modern Art Scene. There were displays were this acrylic container might make sense. So I am not dismissing these as not being bonsai, rather I am just pointing out that this will be far from traditional.
I know myself, I do not have a well developed sense of art and design. I have to go to the Japanese ''rules'' of design, because they are written out, easy for me to access. I could not successfully use a Modern Art approach, because I don't have the artistic sense to pull it off.
Danielm
Yamadori
Very interesting facts from you all ... thanks for the reply and encouragement.
I will try it with my new cherry seedlings as I do have experience in water treatment, keeping both tropical and marine fish, oh and I did used to have a swimming pool ?
I will try it with my new cherry seedlings as I do have experience in water treatment, keeping both tropical and marine fish, oh and I did used to have a swimming pool ?
jeanluc83
Omono
What no one is going to comment on the white pine being grown inside?
I could see this working quite well with ficus. The pine in the picture I don't see lasting for all that long.
I could see this working quite well with ficus. The pine in the picture I don't see lasting for all that long.
It's Kev
Omono
I was away from home for 5 weeks, dunked my Tropic als in a big plastic basin full of water. They were fine, except for disgusting algae growth
MrFancyPlants
Omono
I have been growing mine this winter in an aquarium over water with rayon mop strands potted in the soil to wick the water from the reservoir to the bonsai. You can use any commercial houseplant food like miracle grow or Pete's. I happen to use Dyna-grow 7-9-5 that I purchased it was urea free(not sure if that matters), but I would be tempted to try a M.S.U., low P formula like Leo has recommended. Quick answer is that I use the same fertilizer in my "hydroponic" solution as I do to water my potted bonsai.
edit: Ficus seem to love the hydroponic setup, I can't speak for olives. I know they do live in arid regions like portugal, but maybe they would do fine as well.
edit: Ficus seem to love the hydroponic setup, I can't speak for olives. I know they do live in arid regions like portugal, but maybe they would do fine as well.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Question about your wicking method...
Do bury the mop strand in the soil very far?
Or just lay them on soil surface??
I've seen this method in books, but never tried...
Pics??
MrFancyPlants
Omono
https://bonsainut.com/threads/vacation-enclosure.30663/
I have some pictures of the enclosure in this thread, but you can’t really see the mop strands. I would tie two together and send each end through the mesh and drainage holes, leaving some length mixed in with the substrate during repotting. I’m not sure that it is necessary, but it seemed to work. Most have sent roots along the strand and down into the reservoir at this point, but maybe not the willow leaves.
