Arakawa Maple

Lorax7

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Maybe it just me but it makes no sense to start with grafted material then do an air layer and still end up with grafted material.
What’s going to be more noticeable to the viewer 10 years from now, a graft that is positioned just above ground level because we did an air layer to put it there or a graft halfway up the trunk between the nebari and the first branch?
 

bonsai45

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arakawa *does* air layer well

arakawa *does* easily produce cuttings

arakawa *does* very well on its own roots

a rough bark arakawa with a plain (non-rough bark) nebari is a terrible way to start a bonsai

having not seen the tree, as a general rule always air layer arakawa *above* the graft. If you’re scared to lose the cultivar, you can air layer branches (as opposed to the trunk) and/or take cuttings
 

Pitoon

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What’s going to be more noticeable to the viewer 10 years from now, a graft that is positioned just above ground level because we did an air layer to put it there or a graft halfway up the trunk between the nebari and the first branch?

A graft is a graft no matter how you look at it. It's a scar that will never go away, if you are willing to spend 10yrs growing a subpar tree.......go for it if that makes you happy.
 

Lorax7

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A graft is a graft no matter how you look at it. It's a scar that will never go away, if you are willing to spend 10yrs growing a subpar tree.......go for it if that makes you happy.
You are not reading what I wrote very carefully. The discussion about layering below a graft specifically relates to layering a cultivar that is not viable on its own roots. (This does not apply to Arakawa, which is reportedly fine on its own roots.)
 
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Does anyone have a good resource for Arakawa japanese maple? It looks like there are some on Brussels but I'm looking for more of a starter plant (1 gallon graft or an airlayer preferably). I am having a hard time locating these online and even harder in person. Most online are out of stock. Anyone have experience with Maplestone Ornamentals? I saw they have some 1 gallon grafted material on their site.

I just bought 50 Arakawa seeds on eBay for $6 shipped. It’s not the starter plant you asked for, but it could be 50 starters with some patience. The listing said there were 10 (50) packs left. I hope they’re actually Arakawa. I doubt anyone would waste their time selling fake seeds for a few bucks.

Much like yourself, I realize they are rare and expensive when developed. I’m happy to try growing my own for such a cultivar. I look forward to the next 10+ years and all of the possibilities. Fingers crossed.
 

TyroTinker

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I just bought 50 Arakawa seeds on eBay for $6 shipped. It’s not the starter plant you asked for, but it could be 50 starters with some patience. The listing said there were 10 (50) packs left. I hope they’re actually Arakawa. I doubt anyone would waste their time selling fake seeds for a few bucks.

Much like yourself, I realize they are rare and expensive when developed. I’m happy to try growing my own for such a cultivar. I look forward to the next 10+ years and all of the possibilities. Fingers crossed.
They probably are real but that doesn’t mean you’ll get any rough bark on them, but it could take years before you’ll know if it is or not. But good luck! I ordered some fresh Arakawa seeds from Sheffield’s they came in a couple weeks ago. I thought maple seeds would be fun and I’m just hoping some might at least have a little extra rough bark
 
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They probably are real but that doesn’t mean you’ll get any rough bark on them, but it could take years before you’ll know if it is or not. But good luck! I ordered some fresh Arakawa seeds from Sheffield’s they came in a couple weeks ago. I thought maple seeds would be fun and I’m just hoping some might at least have a little extra rough bark

They will be fun! I agree it will take years to develop the rough bark. In the meantime I’ll try to ID them by the leaves I guess.

Good luck to you as well. I haven’t heard of Sheffield’s.
 
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They probably are real but that doesn’t mean you’ll get any rough bark on them, but it could take years before you’ll know if it is or not. But good luck! I ordered some fresh Arakawa seeds from Sheffield’s they came in a couple weeks ago. I thought maple seeds would be fun and I’m just hoping some might at least have a little extra rough bark

Thanks for the Sheffield’s tip. I went ahead and got some there too. I’ll play the odds and compare the outcomes.

OP needs to grab some too.
 

TyroTinker

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Thanks for the Sheffield’s tip. I went ahead and got some there too. I’ll play the odds and compare the outcomes.

OP needs to grab some too.
I’ve heard lots of good reviews from Sheffield’s as a reliable source. Maple seeds are extremely variable and will most likely revert to regular maple, but seeds from an Arawaka will have better odds of it. Most of not all of your seeds will most likely not develop rough bark ever. But there is still a chance. They will never be considered Arawaka for that you need a cutting from an Arawaka tree.
dont want to discourage you at all. It’s just something I’ve learned and wanted to make sure you knew as well
 
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I’ve heard lots of good reviews from Sheffield’s as a reliable source. Maple seeds are extremely variable and will most likely revert to regular maple, but seeds from an Arawaka will have better odds of it. Most of not all of your seeds will most likely not develop rough bark ever. But there is still a chance. They will never be considered Arawaka for that you need a cutting from an Arawaka tree.
dont want to discourage you at all. It’s just something I’ve learned and wanted to make sure you knew as well

Thanks. Can I assume a ‘true’ Arakawa is a descendent of an original witches broom or mutated JM somewhere down the ancestral line, only propagated by cutting or air layer? ...and the genotype doesn’t translate to seed very well? If this were the case, I would think reputable seed retailers would add a disclaimer to their product to keep the buyer informed.

This concept is new to me. I’d like to understand it better.
 
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I just went back to look... Sheffield’s does actually have a disclaimer attached to a hyperlink at the bottom of the page.

I guess the only thing I can’t grasp is why a seedling is not considered an Arakawa. It’s not a ‘pure’ cultivar based on the genetic variety inherent in all seeds? Thus it cannot be graced with the name Arakawa?
 
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Sorry for the hijack. @nover18 is just looking for a damn tree and I’m blabbing on about seeds.

I found this article addressing my questions.


It makes sense. I doubt many would be able to differentiate a ‘rough bark’ propagated by seed from a cutting propagated ‘Arakawa’. Or, maybe a seed will produce a new interesting variety of its own.

Either way, I’ll give it a shot. Anything that reverts can be gifted to friends.
 

SouthernMaple

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Are you gonna be able to use a grafted Arakawa for bonsai. I was reading @MACH5 thread on his Arakawa he was taking an air layer from his tree to do root grafts with. The idea for it was the bark on roots matched. If you buy grafted stock aren't you gonna have to layer it? I may not understand you guys correctly.
Mach5 got that arakawa from the growing grounds in cherryville nc
 

Pitoon

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Arakawas are really good at being airlayered according to JD Vertrees

Yes, arakawa air layers well. Their cuttings will also strike. The only issue is the time to grow them. People are impatient and want to buy them with rough bark already on them and then complain that they are so expensive.
 

SouthernMaple

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Yes, arakawa air layers well. Their cuttings will also strike. The only issue is the time to grow them. People are impatient and want to buy them with rough bark already on them and then complain that they are so expensive.
Well i think thats the problem with a lot of people getting into bonsai now is that they want instant gratification. I bought a 3 yr old grafted arakawa at bb barns this year for 15 bucks, it won't get bark for another 3 years. i plan on airlayering it and doing softwood cuttings and donate the cuttings to my club this spring, however I am kicking myself for not buying the one at the NC expo this past october that was further along double trunk with bark halfway up for 75 bucks.
 

leatherback

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I am kicking myself for not buying the one at the NC expo this past october that was further along double trunk with bark halfway up for 75 bucks.
Yeah, kick harder. I want to kick you.
:)
Been trying to get a decent arakawa for a long time, and ended up getting some young grafted plants, growing them out and will layer them come 2020 summer.
 

SouthernMaple

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When I bought it in May. I immediately slip potted it into a bonsai mix and a much larger pot. I used the last of my bonsai mix from plant City bonsai, great nursery in NE Georgia.
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a few more shots from July at night
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And finally some shots from this month
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Where would you all recommend where I should do each of the air layers on this tree?
 

penumbra

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I bought about a dozen on eBay last spring. They were on there own roots and have all done well. Thery were also inexpensive but how much I can't remember. I would never dream of buying now that winter is here but I will be hunting again next spring (late winter).
 
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