Arakawa price ?

stu929

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How much should One expect to pay for an Arakawa from a nursery? There’s a big Arakawa at a local nursery to me and I’m curious what a good price for it would be? When I see big it’s probably six or 7 feet tall. I know this will be a project but it should offer multiple air layers and then the opportunity to chop it down the road. The same question would go for an autumn moon as they have a bunch of those.
 

rockm

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How much should One expect to pay for an Arakawa from a nursery? There’s a big Arakawa at a local nursery to me and I’m curious what a good price for it would be? When I see big it’s probably six or 7 feet tall. I know this will be a project but it should offer multiple air layers and then the opportunity to chop it down the road. The same question would go for an autumn moon as they have a bunch of those.
Big is relative and can't be measured by height. A sapling can be seven feet tall. Better indication of price would be trunk diameter--also called trunk caliper. How big is the trunk measured across one side (not circumference-although that can help as well). If the trunk is more than a couple of inches, it's a "big" or bigger, tree. If the bottom of the trunk (the most mature portion of the tree) has begun to "bark up" as in develop the rough pine like bark the cultivar is known for, it also indicates an older tree.

A big arakawa, as in three to five inches, will be pricey, like a few hundred to $500 depending on where it is and who has it...

If you're planning on air layering, you should know that portions of the trunk and branches with extensive rough bark won't reliably air layer as the bark on Arakawa can block backbudding of new branches as well as new roots...
 

stu929

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Big is relative and can't be measured by height. A sapling can be seven feet tall. Better indication of price would be trunk diameter--also called trunk caliper. How big is the trunk measured across one side (not circumference-although that can help as well). If the trunk is more than a couple of inches, it's a "big" or bigger, tree. If the bottom of the trunk (the most mature portion of the tree) has begun to "bark up" as in develop the rough pine like bark the cultivar is known for, it also indicates an older tree.

A big arakawa, as in three to five inches, will be pricey, like a few hundred to $500 depending on where it is and who has it...

If you're planning on air layering, you should know that portions of the trunk and branches with extensive rough bark won't reliably air layer as the bark on Arakawa can block backbudding of new branches as well as new roots...
Good point. I should have taken a picture of the base. It wasn’t a pencil, but wasn’t 3 inches either. I’ll have to go back at some point.
 

stu929

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Big is relative and can't be measured by height. A sapling can be seven feet tall. Better indication of price would be trunk diameter--also called trunk caliper. How big is the trunk measured across one side (not circumference-although that can help as well). If the trunk is more than a couple of inches, it's a "big" or bigger, tree. If the bottom of the trunk (the most mature portion of the tree) has begun to "bark up" as in develop the rough pine like bark the cultivar is known for, it also indicates an older tree.

A big arakawa, as in three to five inches, will be pricey, like a few hundred to $500 depending on where it is and who has it...

If you're planning on air layering, you should know that portions of the trunk and branches with extensive rough bark won't reliably air layer as the bark on Arakawa can block backbudding of new branches as well as new roots...
It has started to get the rough bark but it’s not completely covered with it.
 

rockm

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It has started to get the rough bark but it’s not completely covered with it.
If it has just begun to bark up, it's not all that big. Pic would help determine what it may be worth. Arakawa aren't cheap though. Additionally, they are also mostly grafted. You should take a look at the base of the tree carefully. If the graft is too high on the trunk, the bark of the scion and root stock probably aren't going to match (rootstock won't develop the rough bark) and that won't get much better and will look odd as the tree develops.

Look for a low graft, like on or within half an inch or so of where the surface root flare begins. Some nurseries graft low, some don't
 

stu929

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If it has just begun to bark up, it's not all that big. Pic would help determine what it may be worth. Arakawa aren't cheap though. Additionally, they are also mostly grafted. You should take a look at the base of the tree carefully. If the graft is too high on the trunk, the bark of the scion and root stock probably aren't going to match (rootstock won't develop the rough bark) and that won't get much better and will look odd as the tree develops.

Look for a low graft, like on or within half an inch or so of where the surface root flare begins. Some nurseries graft low, some don't
I looked and I did not see a graft. I have to get a picture which I can do tomorrow but I did not see a graft if there was one its below the surface.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I looked and I did not see a graft. I have to get a picture which I can do tomorrow but I did not see a graft if there was one its below the surface.
If it is a landscape tree, it is 99% guaranteed to be grafted. Nothing wrong with that. It is just the most efficient way for commercial nurseries to propagate Japanese maple cultivars.

However... particularly in the case of Arakawa, you might have trouble hiding a graft union - regardless of how well it was done. The root stock will probably have different bark.

Wouldn't stop me from buying a nice-looking Arakawa, as long as you know what you're getting into. 5 gallon trees start at $50... but as people point out, there is a range of "small" and "large" 5 gallon trees. I have a number of 10 gallon Japanese maples I have gotten from Costco over the last three years. The first year they were $150. Then $160. This year they were $170. Because Costco sells at low margin, those are going to be close to wholesale for a large order.
 

stu929

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I will confirm tomorrow but I did look pretty close and did not see a graft. They actually had several desirable cultivars none of which appeared to be grafted. Seriyu, Arakawa, autumn moon and orangelo I believe. I didn’t dig in them as I didn’t have a hook but I did poke around some and didn’t see a graft. I’ll make sure to look closer tomorrow.

I wish my prices were that cheap. I believe this was a 7 gal maybe bigger and it was 129.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I will confirm tomorrow but I did look pretty close and did not see a graft.
If it isn't a graft it has to be cutting grown or an air-layer. Very unusual unless you are in a bonsai nursery. In fact, very unusual even then. I wish you luck!
 
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I got a grafted one from Mr Maple before realizing it was grafted. I'm debating how much I need to care about the fact that it's not technically arakawa since it's grafted, and was thinking about using it for air layers. I figure even if it's not technically arakawa since it's not from air layer or cutting, it should still be capable of creating intriguing material in the long run.

I think the ones from Mr. Maple were $40.
 
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Technically the top is arakawa the roots are not.

My understanding (and I could be wrong or am forgetting) is that air layers and cuttings produce a genetic match, while grafted versions are not considered technically arakawa (above or below the graft).

It may simply be technicalities which don't matter to most people.
 

rockm

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My understanding (and I could be wrong or am forgetting) is that air layers and cuttings produce a genetic match, while grafted versions are not considered technically arakawa (above or below the graft).

It may simply be technicalities which don't matter to most people.
While technically the "below the graft isn't arakawa" thing is true. It is a distinction without a difference. All three of the things you list, air layers, cuttings and scions for grafts are of the same origin.
 

rockm

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This is a grafted Arakawa 20 years down the road. It is in my backyard. The graft is very low--I got it initially to use as bonsai, but got lazy and let it go--its autumn color is spectacular. It was a "bonsai graft" from Mountain Maples out in Calif. It is about seven inches across at the lower trunk.
 

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While technically the "below the graft isn't arakawa" thing is true. It is a distinction without a difference. All three of the things you list, air layers, cuttings and scions for grafts are of the same origin.

Makes sense, thanks!
 

stu929

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Okay so to confirm it is grafted. But it doesn’t look like a terrible graft.
 

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rockm

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Okay so to confirm it is grafted. But it doesn’t look like a terrible graft.
Whether its not terrible for bonsai greatly depends on the distance between the top of the graft and the beginning of the root crown. If it's more than is shown currently above the soil, it could be an issue. hard to tell if you don't scrape the top layer of soil off to where the actual root crown begins.
 

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If it is cheap, get it and make some airlayers and strike cuttings... you can discard the base latter or cut the graft out once you do your propagation and if it develops branches, you could even have a mountain maple to develop as well.
 
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