Attila Soos
Omono
Great news, all this time that I visited Roy's place, never noticed them. But I'll definitely look for them next time and ask Roy about how to handle them.
Are Italian Stone Pines good choices for bonsai?
- Thread starter QuintinBonsai
- Start date
Great news, all this time that I visited Roy's place, never noticed them. But I'll definitely look for them next time and ask Roy about how to handle them.
Mic E
Seedling
I have grown Italian Stone Pines for years, as upright and slating, and will be putting together a group. I pull off the adult needles as they come, and cut the branches to shape that cahracterisitic umbrella outline where they are still green. It back buds well.
sorry to bump up an old thread, but i figured i would offer a bit of input from my experience with umbrella pine/italian stone pine...
so, my mom got one of those living christmas trees from home depot or something years and years ago...after the holidays she just tossed it in a big pot in pretty much full sun and did nothing to it except water it...after a short time, like others have stated, it began to develop adult foliage mixed in with the cute little juvi needles...the needles are quite long, and a deep green...waaaaay to long to be of any use in bonsai...so anyways, this thing just grew and grew for years with no pruning or anything...it actually grows pretty fast...i mean, considering it was left in a pot and given no fertilizer, no pruning, never transplanted and basically treated like an unwanted step child...it still somehow managed to put on about a foot a year and developed some really attractive bark on the trunk (not nearly as fast as jpb, but decent none the less)...like most other pines they are strong growers in the apex and the lower branches suffer for this and become spindly pathetic little things...
short story long, it got way to big for its pot and kept falling over...this is when she told me i could take it if i want it because she was tired of having to pick it up all the time...so i told her i would, not really ever expecting it to become much of anything...to fit it into my car i had to basically trunk chop it almost in half...this caused backbudding and reverted back to juvi foliage...
it is my opinion based on my limited experience that inducing juvi foliage by pruning is the only way this species can be trained as bonsai...styling is fairly easy though because the limbs are so easy to bend you can practically tie them in knots, and the tree seems to give you plenty of branches to work with...
as far as care goes...ive been basically treating it like i would a black pine, except that instead of "candling" like you would a black pine, i hard prune in fall/early winter taking more off the top and strong branches (kinda like you would with a spruce)...i have no idea if this is the best way though lol...i havnt read ernies article, so if anyone could shed some light on what is talked about there that would be super duper awesome.
hoped that helped a little...if not, oh well, it was fun to ramble about trees for a bit.
oh...almost forgot...keep an eye on spoke branches especially towards the apex...you can end up with an ugly bulge very quickly...this is true for all pines, but even more so with this species.
so, my mom got one of those living christmas trees from home depot or something years and years ago...after the holidays she just tossed it in a big pot in pretty much full sun and did nothing to it except water it...after a short time, like others have stated, it began to develop adult foliage mixed in with the cute little juvi needles...the needles are quite long, and a deep green...waaaaay to long to be of any use in bonsai...so anyways, this thing just grew and grew for years with no pruning or anything...it actually grows pretty fast...i mean, considering it was left in a pot and given no fertilizer, no pruning, never transplanted and basically treated like an unwanted step child...it still somehow managed to put on about a foot a year and developed some really attractive bark on the trunk (not nearly as fast as jpb, but decent none the less)...like most other pines they are strong growers in the apex and the lower branches suffer for this and become spindly pathetic little things...
short story long, it got way to big for its pot and kept falling over...this is when she told me i could take it if i want it because she was tired of having to pick it up all the time...so i told her i would, not really ever expecting it to become much of anything...to fit it into my car i had to basically trunk chop it almost in half...this caused backbudding and reverted back to juvi foliage...
it is my opinion based on my limited experience that inducing juvi foliage by pruning is the only way this species can be trained as bonsai...styling is fairly easy though because the limbs are so easy to bend you can practically tie them in knots, and the tree seems to give you plenty of branches to work with...
as far as care goes...ive been basically treating it like i would a black pine, except that instead of "candling" like you would a black pine, i hard prune in fall/early winter taking more off the top and strong branches (kinda like you would with a spruce)...i have no idea if this is the best way though lol...i havnt read ernies article, so if anyone could shed some light on what is talked about there that would be super duper awesome.
hoped that helped a little...if not, oh well, it was fun to ramble about trees for a bit.
oh...almost forgot...keep an eye on spoke branches especially towards the apex...you can end up with an ugly bulge very quickly...this is true for all pines, but even more so with this species.
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There was an article in bonsai focus and in this blog: http://www.ofer-grunwald-bonsai.com/cracking-mediterranean-red-pines/
I saw the results in person and it is quite impressive...
I saw the results in person and it is quite impressive...
michaelj
Chumono
I've seen some good ones, but I find it to be difficult material to work with, and the few that I have pretty much suck.
QuintinBonsai
Chumono
I didn't expect to see this thread pop back up lol. I've sort of lost my interest in them here lately, and moved on to JBPs. Maybe it's the knobby, bulbous like trunks, and waiting on them to put out adult foliage.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Sure have been a lot of old antique thread being brought up lately?
aframe
Shohin
Well here's my Italian Stone (P. Pinea): Purchased Dec '13, I began pruning it Late winter of '14. Back budded nicely after a trunk chop and pruning. The needles seem to reduce by withholding water during elongation. I've started grafting JBP 'Mikawa' onto it just to mess around...I like the color of the juvenile foliage and the mature foliage, although the mature needles are a bit soft and thin...could be a product of not enough water and food on this years growth, I really haven't had this tree long so I'm just guessing.
I was looking for info on them and wanted to share some back...
I started some training with Ofer Grunwald (the guy from the article) and got this little tree to train on. It will be a Shohin. We don't have other options here for pins. Although I also started a batch of JBP from seeds. If they can grow in Hawaii why not Israel?
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AlanReynolds
Sapling
I'm curious if there are any updates on these lovely little trees since the holidays are right around the corner and i have a couple in my collection but was wondering what other people are finding with these little trees.
miker
Chumono
Mine didn't survive the winter here in SE PA, so I definitely feel they Pinus pinea is a zone 8 species. Shouldn't be an issue where you are located Alan.
Mine are kept in a cold room in winter, with subtropicals. Two from seed, 11 and 4 years old.
This one is grown to be styled as umbrella one day. Not so easy...
Didn't prune this season and it's back budding without any insult...
The small one will stay small and be styled as a shohin pine style. Four years and it shows first mature needles. What's wrong with the kids nowadays, aren't they getting adult too soon or they think it at least?
This one is grown to be styled as umbrella one day. Not so easy...
Didn't prune this season and it's back budding without any insult...
The small one will stay small and be styled as a shohin pine style. Four years and it shows first mature needles. What's wrong with the kids nowadays, aren't they getting adult too soon or they think it at least?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
What happens when you pluck the needles?
Which needles do you mean, Vance and for what reason?
I don't remove needles intentionally, do cut only damaged ones. It's possible to candle-cut it twice a season in my climate. After cutting it's response is really wild, 2-5 new shots at the place of cut in few weeks. And some back buds, I haven't found there is any difference in backbudding depending on whether there is a needle left or removed. Maybe not watching it close enough.
Mature needles appear randomly on terminals and just few of them.
...Will let a sacrifice branch grow to see what will happen.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
What happens when you pluck the adult needles, those long ones that pop up from time to time. It seems to me it is a choice with this tree. The growth you are looking at here is actually the juninile growth which I would, understanding the tree, prefer over the adult folieage you can see at the apex of the tree in the last photo. For what reason?----To see what happens.
Now I understand. Nothing noticable really happens if the adult needles are plucked. Juvenile foliage is lovely short, that's +. On the other hand I'd prefer deeper green colour and two needles per bundle for more pine-like look. That's a matter of taste, some coniferous cultivars with bluish/yellow... foliage do not look so good to me. But it would have to be very big tree and I think, pruning it would bring juvi foliage back...
That's a sacrifice branch and I really don't care what type of foliage it has for now..
But curious, if adult needles are left, will untouched growth from their needle buds remain adult, how will it respond to pruning. Will I ever get a shot from those buds? Many Qs. An opportunity to learn from it.
Gustavo Martins
Omono
You mentioned that you were able to candle cut twice a season. Care to share when you do it?
If I can remember it well, half or end of June and then middle of summer (some two months later). But it was last year. One article says it can be done three times in warmer climates, if it helps.
These are my teacher's trees (Ofer Grunwald).
(His article is in the link above some ware...)
Both with fully mature needles and well ramified in 2-3 years.
The mature needles are assential to hormone control and should not be removed completely.
His method is basically pushing the trees to the limit for a short period of time and decandle twice a year for building the basic structure and once its there, a regular red pine work schedule is enough to get the resalts you see in these pictures.
I am getting a tree from him, in order to lern this method, and ill post it in a different thread.
Regards,
Shay
(His article is in the link above some ware...)
Both with fully mature needles and well ramified in 2-3 years.
The mature needles are assential to hormone control and should not be removed completely.
His method is basically pushing the trees to the limit for a short period of time and decandle twice a year for building the basic structure and once its there, a regular red pine work schedule is enough to get the resalts you see in these pictures.
I am getting a tree from him, in order to lern this method, and ill post it in a different thread.
Regards,
Shay
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