Are you a bouger?

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I'm certain that there are hundreds of resources on the net about growing Bougainvillea, but finding all of the information that I am looking for on one site, seems to be a bit of a challenge.

Today I found this site that likely answers 95% of the possible bougainvillea horticultural questions as they pertain to pot growing.

Some people might find this information redundant, but I've gone through all of the 60 some odd pages of boug threads and the same questions are asked over and over again.

Hopefully, anyone new to growing these vines will find this site helpful.

http://www.askmar.com/Bougainvilleas/Bougainvilleas.pdf
 

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Thanks for that, definitely saving it for a read a bit later.

Kind of an odd site for that to be buried in but ok. :D
 

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"Kind of an odd site for that to be buried in but ok."

Do you mean the name for this thread?...
 

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"Kind of an odd site for that to be buried in but ok."

Do you mean the name for this thread?...

I meant more the askmar.com that hosts the articles, it seems to be some kind of marketing and sales type of website or blog with Bougies and Redwoods thrown in for good measure. Not a criticism just wouldn't of looked at a marketing site otherwise.
:)

But it is well worth reading, not finished yet but very interesting. Thanks again.
 

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I see what you mean now... odd indeed. I guess it was dumb luck on my part, I just saw the pdf and looked at it... to me, it seems to be complete and well written. FYI... lots of pictures at the end of the page too, after the definitions etc...

I was trying to find information on how quickly the root system would develop a good nebari (if they ever do) on a large cutting.
 

GrimLore

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I was trying to find information on how quickly the root system would develop a good nebari (if they ever do) on a large cutting.

I have been experimenting with only two cuttings off of the mother plant. So far it looks like you can fill a pot with fine roots in loose substrate... It also appears that the root system is a LOT like Azalea which does not look good for quick nebari development. Still ok to mess with and if trimmed a LOT should fatten up fairly quick, 5 - 7 years is my guess.

Grimmy
 

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Yeah, I see the same thing... basically the roots systems are a huge mat of tangled roots that have the appearance of a fake looking sponge... so far, I just don't want to mess with them too much until spring rolls around and they head into a robust growing season/pattern. I'm thinking that if a person takes a sizeable risk to work the roots (hopefully without killing the plant), then you could expect, not only your knowledge base to grow, but that the plant "might" become more accustomed to having root work done in the future, thereby being able to develop a good nebari.

I'm thinking of trying to cut 6 thin wages into the existing root mass, and placing plastic separators between the slices to encourage independent root segments... yadda, yadda, yadda...

... probably going to make myself a dead stick in a plastic pot. :p
 

GrimLore

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I'm thinking of trying to cut 6 thin wages into the existing root mass, and placing plastic separators between the slices to encourage independent root segments... yadda, yadda, yadda...

... probably going to make myself a dead stick in a plastic pot. :p

No idea as this our first round with them. I can tell you though that I have seen some very old heavy trunks with no real nebari as in Maples and in addition with little or no substrate that are quite acceptable. I do not see myself doing as you say and just reducing top and bottom to fatten the plant. There are a lot of plants, even Serissa, that I can and do develop decent nebari on - just me perhaps but I probably have far less years then you to experiment ;) I do agree though on one point mentioned earlier - There is very little information on what is considered a weed by most growers and it all conflicts :eek:

Grimmy
 

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As you know, a "weed" by definition is ANY plant or tree that grows where humans don't want it to. With the exception of about 8 weeks here in zone 3, the vine would never survive a fraction of the year... so, what is easily understood to be a weed in zone 8 or higher, is a novelty in the snowy parts of the Northern Hemisphere. The only thing that sets it apart from prunus or any other "real tree" is that it can live quite happily as a parasitic load on the hydro bill by demanding artificial lighting for the majority of the year.

The ability to flower several times throughout the year is just a bonus for indoor gardeners... especially when you've just taken your snowshoes, and 4 layers of clothing off when you got home. The real challenge with them here, is to actually find them for sale in the garden centres, especially to find a large trunk.

I have been thinking about the conflict in information about root work on these plants... I wonder if the dichotomy in the information is due to the difference between a stump that was re-planted as a cutting, compared to a stump that was dug and retains its original root system. Which also causes me to wonder if the roots will turn into one large plate over time like we see with some trees.

In any case, I have a few to enjoy for as long as they live... just thought that article might be of interest to the ppl who like the weed... thanks for the input.
 

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My name is Thomas and I am a Bouger. I have several and still trying to figure these out. The info is good and there is really nothing I disagree with so I will keep this as a reference. A couple things I have learned from experience is if you want branching leave room in the pot for roots to grow. If you want just flowers then a pot filled with roots is your ticket. Also, I use the same soil as just about every tree I have which is pumice, lava, and bark and it is working fine.
 

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Welcome to the 12 Step Program for "weed lovers"... (there are two types, so if you're stoned, don't get confused.)

Thanks for the soil info... I have to repot in the spring and was struggling with what to go with for the mix.
 

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I've got three I've had for about three years. They fill the pots with fine fibrous roots very quickly. I have to re-pot every year or two and the nebari still sucks. Still love the plants for the thick trunks, lovely bark and flowers. I hope we can together learn how to create decent nebari through this site. Me and the OP are probably some of the only bougers in our climate. Good to share info.
 

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I have abut 14 of them the biggest one is about 1.5" maybe 2 but I don't think so... I have temple fire, royal purple, majestic purple, pink pixie, Barbra Karst and one alexandrea lots to learn still...
 

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compared to a stump that was dug and retains its original root system. Which also causes me to wonder if the roots will turn into one large plate over time like we see with some trees.

Like others I'm still working out what is what but when I dug my largish one from the yard the roots did take a bit of a hammering and was bare rooted before being put back in a pot with mostly the same soil it came out of purely because of the whole touchy roots thing and best to leave them yadda.
My observations so far is that firstly the one in a pot didn't skip a beat after all that and even new shoots came from the roots left underground which tells me the roots can take a fair bit of handling.
However I should not of used the same soil it came out of as after a long hot summer and then a large rain period it has set like cement and instead of trying to reduce the roots at next repot I'm just going to have to put it in better soil and wait for vigor again.

a.jpg aa.jpg IMG_3733.JPG

You can see that large coiled tap root and some of what broke off plus all those feeder roots were cut by the shovel but if the plant is healthy enough I reckon I can cut most of that coiled up root while leaving the feeders alone at least that was the original plan but it may have to wait another season. If it has to go in a smaller pot I don't really see any other option if I'm honest,m it may kill the tree but honestly I don't think it will if it is healthy.
Water seems to be the biggest threat to them, I have killed heaps of mini thai bougies trying to figure out right watering.

I will be digging another 3 up come spring/summer and transplanting them to another spot in the yard and they will likely get the same treatment just from the digging but at least it will build up a bit more knowledge on how they respond to having their roots disturbed.
 

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@Starfox

I'm not certain that you understand what I mean.

I "think or suspect" that the root system (the original root system) left on the vine makes them bullet proof. And, if you chopped a 3" thick x 12" long (7 cm x 30cm) section out of a branch and plopped it into a pot, it most likely would root. BUT, the two root systems could not be handled the same after years 3 or 4. Apparently the root system on the cutting is weak. Not the roots themselves, but the root to stalk connection. I have been wondering how long it takes for the root to stalk section to begin to make thicker roots/nebari, if they ever do, and how or what one has to do to encourage this to happen.

One of mine is a 3" (+/-) trunk/stalk chop, that has a LOT of roots. It has the density of that green foam that you can get for flower arrangements... but, it is surprisingly pourous. I fed/watered the plant last night with Miracle Grow tomatoe fert. because it's showing signs of malnutrition, and the water flows through at a reasonable pace. Come transplanting time, I may not mess with the roots at all, other than fitting them into the new pot, but I sure would like to see some thickening of the older roots themselves.

Good luck with your digs come spring!
 

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I found another "largish" bouger today, but the owner has it in the ICU for some unknown pestilence or disease... they wouldn't even give me a price. I was thinking that I'd snatch it cheap (cheap for a Canadian anyway) and take a chance that I could revive it... it might be better sitting right where it is though, seeing that I have enough crap as it is. :)
 

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Ok, so a follow up for ppl who are not familiar with the Bougs. After seeing the growth on Jan 21st, I waited a couple days and decided that "if" I was going to do root work on these plants, I had better try and do it as they were coming out of dormancy. (The other option was wait until spring, with the possibility of setting them back through May/June)

So, the smaller of the two took the rootwork quite well, lost a few bracts and leaves, then bounced right back afterwards. The larger one (about 3" or 8 cm at the base) didn't like the work that I did on it at all. However, this work was much more invasive as I tried to cut thick old roots from the vine, and leave all or most of the newer roots intact. It appeared to me that this plant is about 15 years old, but had been removed from the ground possibly 1-3 years ago. It has some good root growth much of the way around the base. In one particular area where I removed a large section of old root(s), it exposed an area of new roots directly above it, and as the root came free the new roots drooped and all of the soil fell off.

As I have mentioned before, I suspected that the roots themselves aren't that delicate, but the contact point between the roots and the base of the vine are the weak spot. "In my mind anyway" I think I have proven this point, because the plant went straight into dormancy afterward (or near death), and is now beginning to show signs of recovery. However, of the 4 branches that come from the trunk, I suspect that I have lost one of these... will know for sure in another month.

So, if I was going to characterize the Bougs reaction to transplanting, I say that they are as tolerant as most plants, if all you are going to do is rake out the roots and put it in the next pot size up. They are going to be troublesome if you intend to reduce an old root system to fit in a bonsai pot. And they are going to be highly problematic, and possibly die, if you mess with the roots a lot, and allow the new roots to flop around (flexing at the root-to-base contact point) more than absolutely necessary.

To reduce the vibration on the plant itself, I used a 4" cordless angle grinder with a masonry disc to cut, and a 60 grit flapper disc to clean up the cut afterwards. (For me, this system works the best on all of the "larger" trees... basically anything larger than you could properly use root pruners on.)

Of course, this has only been my limited experience with transplanting these vines, so take what I say with a grain of salt... my intention is to share what I've experienced, because there is so little information on them as a "house plant in zone 3"...
 

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I'm not sure what I can add to this conversation, except that once established, they are insanely hardy. I have them in my landscape here and they are one of the few plants I don't have to irrigate, at all. They will bud back, even on the oldest bark. You can see this one out in my front yard is growing in our crappy clay soil. The only other thing that will grow near it are yuccas! Oh and they need full sun. Even partial sun makes them extremely unhappy and you will lose a lot of foliage density.

bougie.jpg
 
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