Are you a bouger?

[Random User]

Thanks for the input B'nut.

I "think" mine will be alright now, that I have the roots straightened out. I don't intend on messing with them again, with the exception of going to one pot size larger as the growth dictates. Mine will spend "most" of the year indoors, and under lights. I suspect "from what you've said" that I could hardly give them too much artificial light.

The boug in your picture appears to have the same colour bracts that my large one has... what is the name of that variety?

Oddly, mine tend to like as much water as any other plant that I have... I thought they liked a dryer soil like you stated.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I consider them touchy when young, but bulletproof once established. I know that they do well in wet, humid climates - in Miami, Florida they are everywhere, as in Hawaii. I do not know the name of the variety in my photo; what I do is take bracts from bushes I like in my landscape and bring them to the garden center to buy new plants. I should use the past tense because the last bougie I planted was easily 10 years ago. I have planted them in various locations and if the conditions are perfect they thrive, but if conditions are less than perfect I get 50% or more loss. They need water when young and I can't understress the full sun. I had one bush that was thriving, and then a neighboring palm grew taller and started to shade it a little (perhaps 50%) and for the last two years I thought I was going to lose the entire bush - regardless of fertilizer, water, etc. I have been trimming the palm fronds and slowly the bush is coming back but this is in an area where I have junipers and hibiscus getting the same sun and they are doing fine - so it is a plant that needs more sun than hibiscus

 

[LanceMac10]

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That's insane.....

 

[Starfox]

The 2 that I have are only just waking up now(lost one), they were out all winter and dropped their leaves and look decidedly shabby right now, we had so much rain too so I think they were lucky to survive. For now they are just getting a trim back and a feed to get them going again, I figure give them less to do and they should bounce right back.
No way though would I(in a perfect world) be tackling the roots now, I have in the past and they were ok but I believe late spring or summer to be better for that job. It's annoying as one of them badly needs a repot and better soil but if I do that I will tackle the rest of the tap root too so hopefully by mid spring the temps are high enough and growth is pushing to minimise the risk.

 

[Random User]

So, after testing the soil with a chopstick, I had some doubts about the outcome, so I went and bought one of those moisture probes to have for these plants to try and figure out whats going on. As it turns out, the large one has been getting consistent watering... probably because I did such intensive root work earlier. The smaller one was just watered and the probe revealed that it is "dry"... this explains a lot of happenings to me.

Advice: If you are having trouble with your boug and things just aren't adding up, go buy one of these moisture testers and probe a range of areas in the pot... you may be having the same problem that I am, in that the water is not getting into the entire plant. I'm going to "dunk" the entire pot and see how thorough the watering is, and if that doesn't do the trick I'm going to make a sizeable problem and air-rate the rootball.

 

[milehigh_7]

Well a few of mine are popping leaves. Terrible pictures but in a hurry.

 

[Random User]

So just to "round out" what I've learned from my boug experience and leave for the forseeable future, I thought I'd do a last update for anyone who has been "tested" by their boug. After having straightened out a number of issues with these plants, they still weren't doing what I expected they should do. The biggest "physical" challenge they were facing was the lack of aeration (allowing proper and consistent watering throughout the rootball), but the biggest over-all change came when I was speaking to the owner of a large garden centre about my problems, and a Jamaican woman walking by overheard our exchange... "How long are they under lights?", she asked... I told her that I had the timer programmed for 16 hours. She told me reprogram the timer for 12 hours and see if that would help.

Long story short, the plants stopped throwing as many bracts/flowers, and began to leaf out after about 2 weeks... so, if you're having problems it's one more thing to try, but for me, it seems to be the answer that I've been looking for, and the one thing that I highly doubted would have such a large impact on their growth.

Thanks to everyone who tossed me valuable suggestions... now I'm going to go back to the regional plants/trees that I know about and stop fighting with out-of-zone, self-inflicted problems...

See ya!

 

[milehigh_7]

Well #1 of 20 is done. New home is a cut down gallon. Defoliated and will sit in the shade till it pushes new leaves. Could not do anything about that surface root this go round. Maybe next time. Fingers crossed.

 

[Random User]

OMG, milehigh_7!

I came here to post a little snippet on "how to encourage vegetative growth instead of flowering" and I see you've totally defoliated your bougie! LMAO.

I managed to get a degree of new leaf growth on mine since my last post, but its still not where I'd like it to be. Read a blog on bougainvilleas a couple of weeks back that said to pinch off the bracts as they emerge to encourage back-budding and new leaf growth. It seems to be working on mine (some) but I'm still in the early stages of this test to say how well it would work over the long haul. But, if anyone else is having trouble (like I am) of getting leaf growth instead of flowering, it might be worth a try... take it for what it's worth. I think it would be a minimally invasive approach to take in order to get a fuller looking specimen if your boug looks like a skeleton.

MH7, I had a root like that on mine... I took a 4" cordless angle grinder with a diamond tile saw and cut it off, then delicately cleaned it up with a 80 grit flapper disc. I'm absolutely certain that you already know that the root-to-stem contact point is very fragile on bougs and they don't like their roots to be messed with. (But I mention this here just in case someone reads this that doesn't know the risks.) If I had someone to help me, I think the better route may have been a really sharp pair of loppers, as any vibration tends to dislodge the medium from the rootball, or irritates the delicate root/stem contact points. It seems that I got away with what I have done, but I'll wait another year before I have a peek at the scar to see how well it has recovered.

The problem that the loppers might pose, is too much "crushing" as the roots seem to be quite "spongy" (and one might not get a clean cut)... if you have an alternative system that works well for you, I for one would like to hear it...

I think this tree that you've posted could turn into something really special... I really like it!

 

[milehigh_7]

OMG, milehigh_7!

I came here to post a little snippet on "how to encourage vegetative growth instead of flowering" and I see you've totally defoliated your bougie! LMAO.

I managed to get a degree of new leaf growth on mine since my last post, but its still not where I'd like it to be. Read a blog on bougainvilleas a couple of weeks back that said to pinch off the bracts as they emerge to encourage back-budding and new leaf growth. It seems to be working on mine (some) but I'm still in the early stages of this test to say how well it would work over the long haul. But, if anyone else is having trouble (like I am) of getting leaf growth instead of flowering, it might be worth a try... take it for what it's worth. I think it would be a minimally invasive approach to take in order to get a fuller looking specimen if your boug looks like a skeleton.

MH7, I had a root like that on mine... I took a 4" cordless angle grinder with a diamond tile saw and cut it off, then delicately cleaned it up with a 80 grit flapper disc. I'm absolutely certain that you already know that the root-to-stem contact point is very fragile on bougs and they don't like their roots to be messed with. (But I mention this here just in case someone reads this that doesn't know the risks.) If I had someone to help me, I think the better route may have been a really sharp pair of loppers, as any vibration tends to dislodge the medium from the rootball, or irritates the delicate root/stem contact points. It seems that I got away with what I have done, but I'll wait another year before I have a peek at the scar to see how well it has recovered.

The problem that the loppers might pose, is too much "crushing" as the roots seem to be quite "spongy" (and one might not get a clean cut)... if you have an alternative system that works well for you, I for one would like to hear it...

I think this tree that you've posted could turn into something really special... I really like it!

All that I posted, along with about 30 others, were sold at some point since this post. Notice the date of my last post on this thread. July 14 2017 I looked it up and it was 109F and 9% humidity that day. Perfect boug repotting weather! The trick, as I mentioned in the now infamous elm defoliation thread, is you have to repot bougs in the hottest part of summer and you must defoliate. The reason is that they will die or dramatically weaken trying to support the water loss from the leaves and recover from the repot.

If you defoliate, when repotting, they will blast out leaves from everywhere, including old dormant buds on the trunk in about a week. I lost 3 out of that 30 by not defoliating and they all died.

Now my experience is when they start flowering, you pretty much can't stop them. In order to switch to veg, you need to increase water, nitrogen, and light and snip off bracts before they really get going. Remember they are native to Brazil where you have a very wet season and and a dry(er) season. Mimic this for best results.

Also, bougs want to be 5.5 to 6 pH and you need to make sure they have all the micro nutrients. Without the minirals you just won't get the results you want.

 

[milehigh_7]

Oh and as far as that root goes, I had just cut off about 90% of the roots so taking that one was not an option. Yes, they are quite spongy. Somewhat like a succulent in truth.

 

[Random User]

MH7;

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't criticizing you for not removing that root... my post was more of a "reminder to myself, for the future" or for someone who might be facing the same operation on their vine and don't know how to proceed.

When I removed the root on mine, it really wasn't doing much for the plant... basically just taking up pot space and looked like crap; plus it forced the trunk (where the effective rooting was taking place) off to the outer perimeter of the pot.

Normally, I would have waited for a better time to remove the root, but I had a number of issues that made me think that it was worth the risk.

Because I have a rather wide range of plants with varying ph preferences I splurged on a high-end ph pen yesterday. (plus, I'm going to grow some cannabis this summer once it becomes legal in Canada next spring, and it is a must for that) I suspect that my other testing method wasn't accurate and the boug is suffering from some nutrient lock-out.

So, this begs a question on my part. Since I really don't have to repot for another couple years likely... and "if" I can't get the plant to respond the way I expect that it should by the hottest part of the summer, would it be wise to defoliate in the last 2 weeks of July and the first week of August when it is the hottest time of the year in Saskatchewan? And, in the same stream of thinking, would this "reset" the growth pattern of this vine; because all it wants to do now is flower?

Thanks for the reply(s)... those are some helpful tips.

 

[Anthony]

Daniel San, Bougainvillea is Sub-Tropical and can actually become a tree [ do google ]

It naturally defoliates, as seen in the neighbours' various hedges, as well as thriving
in 100% clay soil.

AND Daniel, K finally found a Bougainvillea, that bracts in orange and then the bracts
fade to orange.
No more weird dried out colour variations [ mah k skeefo ]
Life begins anew.
Life is good.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Random User]

Anthony, may I ask what time of year does it defoliate and what is the climate like during that period in your area?

" bracts in orange and then the bracts fade to orange" ... Q; Starts out bright orange and fades to a pale orange?

 

[Anthony]

@SKBonsaiGuy ,

We have a pronounced dry season from Christmas until May/June [ no rain [
By April or so the Bougainvillea will have defoliated.

Yes, starts out as orange Bracts [ the little white flowers are surrounded by the bracts ]
and fades to orange.
I will have to wait for a few weeks to see if it is really a pale orange.

K, my brother-in-law couldn't handle the normal fade to some strange off colour.
we have red, and other colours , orange as well, but not as bonsai attempts.
That is in this yard.
Ha ha, it's a Fine Artist [ K ] thingee Ha ha.
Good Day
Anthony

^ Bougainvillea is also known by the Chinese as --------- the thorny Azalea.

 

[Starfox]

Bougies are a semi-deciduous plant, in my climate they will either be evergreens but some can and do have a leaf drop in winter which is also normal. From my observation it is normally the well established in the ground or healthy ones in pots that stay evergreen and often it is ones that I have worked on that summer which are more likely to drop leaves.
I have a bunch at the moment in pots looking ugly as hell because they have dropped where others in pots are holding on but scruffy, all our yard ones are still greenand blooming.
I think for me a greenhouse would probably knock the dormancy on the head, at least for the one in pots.

Yes, starts out as orange Bracts [ the little white flowers are surrounded by the bracts ]
and fades to orange.
I will have to wait for a few weeks to see if it is really a pale orange.

We have one that always looked red but last year we cleared the row of Cypress trees behind which blocked the sun and this years colour was orange but as the season went along it changed to a more peach colour. I'm going to try for some cuttings when the weather warms up.

 

[Random User]

Thanks for the replies... now, I'm thinking that my attempts at correcting said problems, are "causing the problems". I've tried so many things, the plant is probably as pissed off at me as I am at it!

Like trying to mount a horse with the reins held too tight, me and this bouger are probably doing the barnyard 5 legged-two-step for no apparent reason. Like Bugs Bunny says, "What a maroon!"

 

[milehigh_7]

Thanks for the replies... now, I'm thinking that my attempts at correcting said problems, are "causing the problems". I've tried so many things, the plant is probably as pissed off at me as I am at it!

Like trying to mount a horse with the reins held too tight, me and this bouger are probably doing the barnyard 5 legged-two-step for no apparent reason. Like Bugs Bunny says, "What a maroon!"

They like to be rootbound as well so no repotting or anything else for a good long while. Feed it good and keep it moderately watered. Give it as much light as possible and I don't think you can miss. Don't defoliate unless you are repotting in the heat. You can hedge prune it to shape however and even wire while it's flexible. As always we can love our trees to death and that is especially true of bougs.

 

[MichaelS]

I found 6 of these dwarf bougies at my local hardware store. They were on the ''specials'' table where they try to flog off sick plants just before they turn into compost. All leafless and on the edge of death. They were reduced from %15 to $4. I took the lot - all different colours. A bit of TLC and the next year this. Not bad for 4 bucks I reckon. I will be propagating this one in particular. Very tight dwarf habit and excellent for small trees.
I've always considered them to be a bit too glam for bonsai but now I like them.

 

[Carol 83]

I found 6 of these dwarf bougies at my local hardware store. They were on the ''specials'' table where they try to flog off sick plants just before they turn into compost. All leafless and on the edge of death. They were reduced from %15 to $4. I took the lot - all different colours. A bit of TLC and the next year this. Not bad for 4 bucks I reckon. I will be propagating this one in particular. Very tight dwarf habit and excellent for small trees.
I've always considered them to be a bit too glam for bonsai but now I like them.

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Great score! Love that one. I have several purple ones. I didn't actually know there were dwarf varieties, too bad you live in Australia .