Atlas Blue Cedar

[Bonsaidoorguy]

So a few years ago I picked up this Atlas for twenty bucks because the leader was snapped off. The guy seemed surprised that I wanted it, I just wanted to pay the man and get out with my new victim. It was balled and burlap so I took as much of the clay ball off as I dared without damaging the sparce roots that it had. Potted it in a nice size garden pot in good soil to get some roots. Buds were starting to swell and old needles are yellowing so I decided to repot during its flush. Had to cut around the edge to get it out but since I had repotted in bonsai soil it cleaned up easily. I was pleasantly surprised by the good root growth so I decided to clean the base out. When I got to the base I removed about enough clay for source to make me a pot out of Got it wired in and potted up. I did the styling before the repot but forgot to take pics. Watered in well with a little Superthrive, I know it's controversial but I've always used it at repot and have good results, could just be my aftercare but I stick with what works for me. So starts it's bonsai journey.

 

[Adair M]

Question for you:

I see a straight trunk. Most of the branches are mostly straight. Yet, there’s one that you’ve put lots of curves in.

Why?

It’s inconsistent. Why would one branch grow curvy, and everything grow out straight?

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Question for you:

I see a straight trunk. Most of the branches are mostly straight. Yet, there’s one that you’ve put lots of curves in.

Why?

It’s inconsistent. Why would one branch grow curvy, and everything grow out straight?

Question for you:

I see a straight trunk. Most of the branches are mostly straight. Yet, there’s one that you’ve put lots of curves in.

Why?

It’s inconsistent. Why would one branch grow curvy, and everything grow out straight?

Question for you:

I see a straight trunk. Most of the branches are mostly straight. Yet, there’s one that you’ve put lots of curves in.

Why?

It’s inconsistent. Why would one branch grow curvy, and everything grow out straight?

Must be the angle because I cranked on every branch. Here's a top view. As far as the trunk, maybe I'll try my hand using a little rebar. For now it recovers a little. I like to practice the motto of " if you're going to put wire on it, put some bends in it.

 

[Adair M]

Well, the purpose of wire is to adjust the branch. Sometimes it’s an angle change, sometimes it’s putting in curves. Sometimes both.

It depends.

But, typically: straight trunk = straight branches

Curvy trunk = curvy branches.

A straight trunk with curvy branches looks awkward. So does a straight trunk with curvy branches.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Well, the purpose of wire is to adjust the branch. Sometimes it’s an angle change, sometimes it’s putting in curves. Sometimes both.

It depends.

But, typically: straight trunk = straight branches

Curvy trunk = curvy branches.

A straight trunk with curvy branches looks awkward. So does a straight trunk with curvy branches.

To each his own. I like it.

 

[Adair M]

To each his own. I like it.

Sure... you can do what you want. I’m just giving you a general guideline that “works”.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Sure... you can do what you want. I’m just giving you a general guideline that “works”.

I wasn't trying to be rude. I'm always open for helpful suggestions. I cranked the bends into the branches to shorten them up without having to cut more off. The little piece of jin was another large branch that I removed because it created a bar branch situation. Then when I pulled both the first and second branch down it looked like it was reaching out for a hug. So I pulled one down and tried to leave the other higher so that they didn't look like bar branches also. Suggestions?

 

[Adair M]

Well... putting in curves to “shorten” a branch is a valid technique... under the right circumstances.

This tree is still very young, and needs considerable development work. So, in this case, cutting back is called for. That will build taper in the branch. Which will make the tree look older.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Branches do not look bad, trunk straight and uninteresting. Once tree is strong/healthy would cut back to lowest branch and develop new tree.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Well... putting in curves to “shorten” a branch is a valid technique... under the right circumstances.

This tree is still very young, and needs considerable development work. So, in this case, cutting back is called for. That will build taper in the branch. Which will make the tree look older.

I just want to say thank you for telling me that it didn't look right. I'm reevaluating it's look right now, all the way down to rotating the tree a little to show what little movement there is in the trunk. Also trimming things back a bit. Hearing the tree that you just worked on doesn't look right stings a little but how else is someone supposed to learn but to have there mistakes pointed out.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Well... putting in curves to “shorten” a branch is a valid technique... under the right circumstances.

This tree is still very young, and needs considerable development work. So, in this case, cutting back is called for. That will build taper in the branch. Which will make the tree look older.

So I straightened the branches and cut them back. I'm concerned about the two top branches. Should I shorten one? I'm also not thrilled with the apex. Should I just accentuate the fact that the leader was snapped? Thanks in advance

 

[JudyB]

I would have saved more of the old trunk and jinned it for a natural looking top. Many trees in the wild have such deadwood at the top. Maybe you could create this with what you have, but you'll have to loose a couple top branches to make it. Nice work so far I think.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

I would have saved more of the old trunk and jinned it for a natural looking top. Many trees in the wild have such deadwood at the top. Maybe you could create this with what you have, but you'll have to loose a couple top branches to make it. Nice work so far I think.

Thanks, it was snapped in that spot when I got it. I'm not against the jin idea, even if I have to loose another branch or two. I'm playing with this one so I'm open for ideas.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Alright, a couple of tweaks, shortened a branch a little more and changed the apex. It's looking a little better. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Pj86]

The reduction of roots + decrease in foliar mass might cause this blue atlas cedar to become weak. It is best to work the roots and then leave as much foliar mass as possible to aid in the recovery of energy.

 

[Adair M]

Ok... this is an Atlas Cedar. There’s some things you ought to know about them, because they are a little more difficult in some ways. (And easy in others!)

Their branches (wood) is very sappy and springy. You have to use really strong wire to be effective, because over time, they will revert back to the way they were. And the wire needs to stay on for a long time. And when you remove the wire, the branch will move back, and you’ll have to rewire it.

They DO back bud well wherever there’s foliage. They don’t back bud on old wood very well. Make sure when you cut back, there’s an active bud. BUT... cutting back WILL encourage back budding, and you can develop nice pads. It’s important to keep foliage close to the trunk, so cutting back will encourage the tree to grow close in branches, and not get “leggy”.

Now, when I look at your tree, I see you have wired with aluminum, which I strongly discourage for Atlas Cedar. The branches have enough spring in them to overpower aluminum. One of the things about using copper wire is that usually you can use thinner Copper than you would with aluminum. But Atlas Cedar is so springy, you should use heavy copper wire! Really.

See how your branches arch? You don’t want that. Assuming you want the branches to hang down, they should start moving down directly from the trunk. You say you couldn’t do that? Well, it’s because the wire wasn’t strong enough. Even using copper, you might need something extra. Take a look at the following diagram:



Look at Fig.16. A piece of rebar was tied to the bottom of the branch. Pad with rubber. The end of the rebar closest to the trunk is about 1/4 to 1/2 inch away from the trunk to give it room when it’s bent down. Then the branch is pulled down using the rebar. The guy wire holds it in place. What this does is use the length of the rebar as leverage, but puts all the bend right at the place where the branch joins the trunk. No arching. That rig will have to stay in place a couple of years. There might be some minor tearing of the tissue on the top of the joint. Put cut paste on. It will heal.

I hope this helps. Atlas cedars are more difficult to wire effectively than other conifers. They require heavier, stronger wire, and it takes more time to “set”. And count on having to remove and replace the wire every two years! Once you get the structure set up, then they are easy to maintain and develop ramification.

Good luck!

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Summer update. Nice new growth, looks fairly happy.

 

[Paradox]

I don't understand why you cut back that long branch low on the trunk but are keeping the two heavy branches near the top as long as they are.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

I don't understand why you cut back that long branch low on the trunk but are keeping the two heavy branches near the top as long as they are.

Didn't cut the lower branch, just moved it to the right with the movement of the trunk, what movement it has.

 

[Paradox]

Didn't cut the lower branch, just moved it to the right with the movement of the trunk, what movement it has.

I am talking about the 3rd branch up from the bottom. Looking back through the pictures I guess you just bent it back up and shortened it a bit at some point

My point still stands about the two heavy (ie large) branches near the top. They are both too thick and should be cut back.

Branches on most trees are larger diameter low on the tree and decrease as you move toward the apex. The lower branches are the oldest usually so have had more time to grow bigger.
They are also usually the longest because they are reaching out beyond the shade the branches above them cast to get to the sun.

By allowing the very lowest branches on your tree to grow and thicken while cutting back the top ones, you can correct the look of the tree.