Azealia Bonsai Dying

[Deep Sea Diver]

Dunno what's going on there. If its root rot, the tree is pretty much toasted by now. Green branches and the green (yes) root area are really good signs, the rest doesn't bode will.

If you are going ahead with a repot, here's a couple ideas exclusively for use in your azalea ER. I would not recommend potting soil and perlite. Good for healthy plants though, especially cuttings.

Please be sure to carefully wash all the soil out of the roots with a hose. If you have New Zealand sphagnum moss available, chop it up in medium, 1", pieces and add to make about 10% of the total media and 90% kanuma. It acts as an anti fungal, so that may help. If material remains, it will be a potential infection issue.

Also pack long sphagnum fibers around the roots in the nebari/lower trunk. This fosters new rooting.

Also add about 3 tablespoons 3% hydrogen peroxide per quart of water and rinse the roots off with it when clean. Actually if you are adventurous, root wash with the 3% right out of the bottle. I've done it before to truly hopeless cases and it worked well for me.

Be sure to thoroughly wash the kanuma dust out. Then use the 3 tbsp/Qt for the first couple waterings..... likely in a couple weeks. 1 tablespoon per quart thereafter until things perk up or it has given up the ghost.

Keep in bright shade for at least a week. No sun.

IF there is any decent vigor left in the tree, these should help alot. Absolutely no guarantees though!

Best of luck and Cheers
DSD sends

OBTW If when you get in to see the roots, if they are dark brown and sort of limp, go with the straight 3% H2O2 if you choose to use it. IF firm and lighter brownish/white (a good sign) you might stick with the lower concentration.

 

[sorce]

Unless it's a Biden-esque Cocaine binge.....

Welcome to Crazy!

Fall is fall...even in Miami!

Sorce

 

[Zjmw]

Dunno what's going on there. If its root rot, the tree is pretty much toasted by now. Green branches and the green (yes) root area are really good signs, the rest doesn't bode will.

If you are going ahead with a repot, here's a couple ideas exclusively for use in your azalea ER. I would not recommend potting soil and perlite. Good for healthy plants though, especially cuttings.

Please be sure to carefully wash all the soil out of the roots with a hose. If you have New Zealand sphagnum moss available, chop it up in medium, 1", pieces and add to make about 10% of the total media and 90% kanuma. It acts as an anti fungal, so that may help. If material remains, it will be a potential infection issue.

Also pack long sphagnum fibers around the roots in the nebari/lower trunk. This fosters new rooting.

Also add about 3 tablespoons 3% hydrogen peroxide per quart of water and rinse the roots off with it when clean. Actually if you are adventurous, root wash with the 3% right out of the bottle. I've done it before to truly hopeless cases and it worked well for me.

Be sure to thoroughly wash the kanuma dust out. Then use the 3 tbsp/Qt for the first couple waterings..... likely in a couple weeks. 1 tablespoon per quart thereafter until things perk up or it has given up the ghost.

Keep in bright shade for at least a week. No sun.

IF there is any decent vigor left in the tree, these should help alot. Absolutely no guarantees though!

Best of luck and Cheers
DSD sends

OBTW If when you get in to see the roots, if they are dark brown and sort of limp, go with the straight 3% H2O2 if you choose to use it. IF firm and lighter brownish/white (a good sign) you might stick with the lower concentration.

Thank you for this. I was going to repot today but if it can wait a few days I will order some kanuma. Do you think I should wait?

 

[Zjmw]

Unless it's a Biden-esque Cocaine binge.....

Welcome to Crazy!

Fall is fall...even in Miami!

Sorce

Are you saying it's just falling off leaves because of the time of the year?

 

[_#1_]

The azalea is currently in dirt right? If so just use the same pot and replace it with potting soil and perlite.

Replacing dirt with dirt+perlite doesn't make sense.

They're both almost exactly the same

 

[Pitoon]

That azalea is slowly dieing, the roots are suffocating in that wet substrate. There's still green showing so there's a chance to save it.

I would pull it from that pot and remove all the dead roots. You will know what the dead roots look like, they will be just mush and have no resistance when you pull on them. Repot it into a nursery pot with an inorganic substrate......kanuma, akadama, monto clay, napa 8822 anything that will hold moisture but drain freely. Keep it in bright shade and hope it recovers.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thank you for this. I was going to repot today but if it can wait a few days I will order some kanuma. Do you think I should wait?

The sooner the better. If it’s quicker to get you could use akadama instead of kanuma @Pitoon suggested.

Don’t water.

Image of healthy roots


Cheers
DSD sends

 

[just.wing.it]

Be sure to let us know what you do....and the outcome.

 

[shinmai]

DSD’s advice is very sound, with one minor quibble. I would not use a hose to remove the gummy old soil. It is highly likely that you have weakened roots as it is, and washing with a hose may destroy more of them. In a similar circumstance I used a five gallon bucket half full of water, submerged the root mass, and gently swished it in the water to wash out as much soil as possible.
There is one other thing that concerns me, and that is the new growth going straight to brown. Normally an azalea shows its unhappiness with being wet by going yellow and dropping its leaves. Going brown is usually indicative of a vascular issue, either a bacterial disease above the soil or something actively attacking the roots. If, when you pull the tree from the pot you see what look like white particles in the root mass it may be an infestation of root mealy bugs or something similar. You can identify them because they look like little bits of cotton with a gummy texture. If this should be the case, DSD’s peroxide treatment may be the only way to save the tree.
The good news is that the limbs don’t have the wrinkled, dessicated look that accompanies vascular collapse. If the ends of the branchlets remain flexible and are not dry and brittle, there may be hope yet.

 

[Katie0317]

Yes it is a regular soil, I planned on repotting it into Kanuma after its next flowering

My point was that it's drowning in the dirt it's in and to repot it in new dirt. Kanuma is preferred for azaleas but changing the substrate seemed more stressful to me than just getting it out of this dirt it's in...One less change to stress it even more.

iI agree that OP will know if the roots have already rotted. It's hard not to know even if you've never seen it before.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

My point was that it's drowning in the dirt it's in and to repot it in new dirt. Kanuma is preferred for azaleas but changing the substrate seemed more stressful to me than just getting it out of this dirt it's in...One less change to stress it even more.

iI agree that OP will know if the roots have already rotted. It's hard not to know even if you've never seen it before.

I can understand wanting to put an azalea in a nursery mix, which is essentially what you are recommending. After all this is just about what azaleas come in from the best azalea people in the US, like Nuccios. Yet in this situation it seems there would be a couple issues with this mix in this particular scenario. Here was my rationale in recommending a media of Kanuma.

The first is pore space. This seems to be a root issue, root rot, or what @shinmai suggested as a another real possiblility root mealy bugs or some such critter. In this case the roots will be damaged and will need more and consistent pore space for the roots to get oxygen and a very fast draining media. A mix of evenly sized small Kanuma or akadama has these qualities.

Also Kanuma is extremely hard to overwater. In fact I believe it was the bwell respected Japanese master, the head of the Satsuki Assn Suisho Nakayama has said its not possible to overwater an azalea in Kanuma. (I’m sure someone might want to take that as a challenge, but my experiences support this.)

That said. Potting soils are essentially peaty, the perlite helps the mix drain faster, yet the peat still retains a lot of moisture while pore space in a nursery mix is inconsistent.

Finally, if this tree is destined to survive, it will certainly take at least a year, and in my experience, more, possibly two to regain its full root vigor. With this in mind…

Looking long term the next step would be to repot the tree in a bonsai media, like Kanuma. To accomplish this the tree would need to undergo another complete root wash to remove the potting mix. Exposing the roots to another large insult. Yet if it survives in a good bonsai mix, down the line it will not need a root wash, just a standard repotting.

Anyways, that was my rationale.

Best
DSD sends

 

[Katie0317]

I understand what you're saying and it's reasonable to me. I just saw dirt soaked like I've never seen dirt soaked in a bonsai and my thought was 'get it out of that dirt and into new dirt'. It seemed putting it in the same substrate would be less stressful than changing it, so that was my thinking.

Wouldn't have suggested any bonsai this wet be changed to a new substrate off season. Since OP is in Miami and the weather temps there don't fluctuate that much during the year I don't think a complete repotting would be as unreasonable as someone who's just moved a tree indoors.

I think kanuma is a good choice given that it's an azalea. I'd be okay with dirt too since he's in Miami and if he waters correctly overwatering shouldn't be an issue due to higher heat and humidity. I was simply trying to limit the number of changes to this tree.

Am just hoping the roots aren't rotten.

 

[Zjmw]

Update: I have reported the plant. I didn't have any kanuma so I ordered some but it says it will arrive mid January and i couldn't wait that long. I have attached some photos of the roots. They seem to be healthy? There was alot of dirt packed in and I cleaned it all out, hoping this will aid in the plants regrowth. What do we think about the roots? Is the plant done for?

 

[Zjmw]

Another shot

 

[Katie0317]

I'm no expert on azaleas so let them sit for a bit. They'll do fine drying out and let someone with more azalea experience can give their opinion but it looks like there's pruning that needs to be done but I'd be hopeful for now. Just be patient. They were planted in dirt before and they'll be fine in dirt now. You can't keep changing soil though. When your new substrate comes you'll need to wait to repot it again when it stops stressing from this experience! That could be very late next summer or maybe a bit earlier. A lot depends on the roots and how the tree does. You can post on this same thread if it starts to come back to life. Wait for an azalea bonsai expert to give their opinion on the roots. I've never repotted an azalea before so I'm going to stay out of this one. Someone will get to you shortly I'm sure.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

It’s really hard for me to tell as the media isn’t washed off all the way in your photos and I can’t feel the roots. Some of the roots look good, others maybe not, but I can’t tell for sure.

Are the roots firm or soft?

Can you please describe the process you went through…. Treatments, media… forces of the roots…. Your impressions..

btw: Personally I would of waited for the correct media. I’d leave the tree in that media until spring 2023 now. Then root wash everything off before replanting in bonsai media.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Zjmw]

It’s really hard for me to tell as the media isn’t washed off all the way in your photos and I can’t feel the roots. Some of the roots look good, others maybe not, but I can’t tell for sure.

Are the roots firm or soft?

Can you please describe the process you went through…. Treatments, media… forces of the roots…. Your impressions..

btw: Personally I would of waited for the correct media. I’d leave the tree in that media until spring 2023 now. Then root wash everything off before replanting in bonsai media.

Cheers
DSD sends

It was pretty difficult to get some of the dirt off and I was afraid to break any big roots by trying to do it anymore but the roots feel firm. I treated it with the hydrogen mixture. I have reported it in soil as that is what I had on hand and felt I needed to do at least something to try and save it. There were not infections or bugs etc In the roots and to me they seem healthy? It is hard to tell as I'm a novice in this. Right now it is in a pot with soil and I have not watered it so it's sitting in it dry

 

[shinmai]

It was pretty difficult to get some of the dirt off and I was afraid to break any big roots by trying to do it anymore but the roots feel firm. I treated it with the hydrogen mixture. I have reported it in soil as that is what I had on hand and felt I needed to do at least something to try and save it. There were not infections or bugs etc In the roots and to me they seem healthy? It is hard to tell as I'm a novice in this. Right now it is in a pot with soil and I have not watered it so it's sitting in it dry

Get yourself an ordinary bamboo skewer and stick it into the soil, with the tip down in the pot as deep as the bottom of your root mass. As much as azaleas hate being wet, they are vulnerable to drying out. And that’s a one-time-only deal—if the roots get too dry, there’s no coming back. The skewer gives you an infallible idea of how wet the soil is. Except immediately after watering, it should never be wet when you pull it out; rather, it should be consistently damp. If it looks too dry, water about half as much as you think you need to, then come back an hour later and check it. At that point, if indicated, water again. Do not fertilize until the tree is healthy again.

 

[Katie0317]

This is a very small watering can by a company called Haws. It's an English company that has been in business for a very, very long time and is an excellent product. You can see how small it is. I use their large model. Make sure you get one with a rose. The rose is the part that is separate from the can and you can use it on or off. Make sure you use it. It has a large number of tiny holes in it so when you water the water comes out in drops like rain, not in one big stream. This can only holds a pint of water so it's the right size if you only have one or two trees to water. It helps make it easier not to overwater.

I use mine everyday and strongly recommend you get one. It's a good investment in your watering routine.

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