Backwards Mugo 2

Backwardsvg

Shohin
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Here is my second mugo. I have a good trunk so far, nice movement, but the typical octopus mugo look. I did an initial prune but think I can take off a bit more. I want to keep it about 1/3 reduction and then next year do a repot in a pond basket with a pumice lava mix. The roots are pretty matted in the pot so I think 1 more season wont hurt but it will for sure be ready for the repot. I am thinking of a few different styles but will see as time goes. Would be interested in any feedback.
 

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Backwardsvg

Shohin
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Took one more small branch out and measured the base of the trunk. It was 2 inches. I will be using this as a journal entry as this develops
 

Backwardsvg

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This is some of my first drafts on ideas of where I would like to see the tree go in 5 years or so. Again I am using this as a place to store pics and updates. If you want to give input or maybe suggest a totally different style I would love to hear it. I dont really love any of them a ton but I think I am leaning towards mugo pt 1 and mugo pt 4 as my favorite. Mugo pt 4 would be the hardest to acomplish and I would need some luck in terms of back budding and branch selection. We'll see what the tree does and if I see something better with time.
 

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James W.

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Looks like a good start on a fun project.
This looks like one of the dwarf cultivars, maybe "Mops" or "Slowmound"? They seem to recover a bit slower than the pumilio that Vance Wood mostly works with.
That said, I think you could do a repot now reducing the root mass by about 1/2 to begin the process of moving it into good bonsai mix.
As far as styling, I seem to change my mind every year when it is time to prune more branches off. And my experience is that it takes several years of removing 1/2 of the branches to get that octopus down to just a trunk and a few branches.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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My thought would be, when one picks up a nursery mugo

Take only a little off

Then repot right away. Let recover at least 12 months, maybe 18 to 24 months, then begin aggressive pruning.

I have often started with pruning first. Then waiting a year or two to "get to the roots" discovering the roots are a mess and won't allow the "front" I wanted, or the angle I wanted. Getting to the roots right away, allows you to style the tree to best use the nebari. At least in the USA where all mugo are nursery grown, grafted or from seed. Europeans are lucky in that they can collect them from the wild. But we have our Limber pines, Ponderosa pines and Pitch pines.
 

Backwardsvg

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I was thinking of doing a repot but I do not have pumice/ lava right now. Maybe I will get the supplies and put it in a pond basket. I have taken what I would say is exactly 1/3 or maybe slightly less off the top. Nothing extremely major just branchlets and small branches or triplets etc.
 

Backwardsvg

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The roots are definitely a bowl of ramen. Maybe It would be good to do a light repot as well.
 

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Vance Wood

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Cut off one half the root mass from the bottom and take out at least one third of the top starting with the largest unwanted branches.
 

Backwardsvg

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An update on this Mugo, it seems like I’m getting a second push of growth? It has lots of set buds but some are opening a second time? Any thoughts?
 

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Leo in N E Illinois

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An update on this Mugo, it seems like I’m getting a second push of growth? It has lots of set buds but some are opening a second time? Any thoughts?

Growth is good. A second flush is a good thing to get. There's plenty of summer left for the tree to mature the growth before winter.
 

Backwardsvg

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Sweet well I’m glad to hear it isn’t just freaking out. I thought it was fine but I also thought Mugo were a single flush so it threw me off
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Trees sometimes don't read the books. They don't know that they're supposed be single flush, or double flush in the case of JBP. The trees will do what they have the vigor to do.

In the USA, mugo is a nursery origin pine. It is not native. Most nursery stock are selected cultivars, and a frequently unconscious selection criteria is for vigor. The nurseryman will not propagate a cultivar if it doesn't show good vigor. The nurseryman might not spend much time thinking about vigor or ranking candidates based on vigor, but if a cultivar is weak in growing habits, it is not likely to get propagated, no matter how unique it looks. . The result is average vigor for nursery stock mugo might include enough vigor for second flushes of growth, especially when stressed. Where wild stick might not do so.
 

Vance Wood

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An update on this Mugo, it seems like I’m getting a second push of growth? It has lots of set buds but some are opening a second time? Any thoughts?
A second flush of growth as demonstrated with JBP and JRPs can happen on young vigorous trees but it does not happen regularly enough for it to be hoped for in doing bud/shoot removal.
 

Vance Wood

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Sweet well I’m glad to hear it isn’t just freaking out. I thought it was fine but I also thought Mugo were a single flush so it threw me off
Mugos and Scotts are both single flush growth pines. (Usually) In performing bud removal you are hoping to induce and abundance of new buds all over the tree. These buds will not become active till the following spring.
 

sorce

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Any thoughts?

I think it's very easy to be misled in this scenario because both great health and great stress seem to cause this.... OPENING OF BUDS.

"Opening of buds" because clearly, this is not a "second flush" of growth, "this" not being just your "this", but every "this" ever seen, in any "single flush" tree.

I reckon the thickness and curl of the needle is the measure of wether it was caused by health or stress.
The thicker and more curled the needle, the more stressed the tree.

So why has the tree decided to open these buds?

I reckon a very healthy tree with no fresh wounds can be pushing so much sap, the pressure forces new growth, more surface area to transpire and lessen the pressure.

A stressed tree can be saying, I will not be able to support this foliage next year, so I'm going to expose it now to see if it can pay it's energy way to support itself next year.

Same sign, two meanings.

Either way this growth is mostly useless if not a detriment to design, so I consider it "bad" and try to avoid it.
If too healthy, it's a sign you're not working the tree enough.
If too stressed, it's a sign you're working it too fast.

Both of these go against the end goal so seeking this "second flush" is a guaranteed path to failure.

Seeking to avoid it is the proper balance.

This is anyway, just the tree balancing itself.

It's a "crosstalk foul" if you will.
If we are timing our moves perfectly to eke out every bit of design direction we seek within the seasonal Crosstalk cycles, we should never witness the tree having to balance itself.

This should be expected and accepted with a first season tree. You're supposed to cut it when you get it to start design thinking appropriately.
Just have to remember this was (usually)outside the appropriate "crosstalk" timing, so it's going to act a bit out of pattern.

Sorce
 

Backwardsvg

Shohin
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Good to know. I did do a first cut on this tree after Father’s Day, but did not do a repot so I thought it would be ok. I didn’t take off more than 30% of foliage. The soil it’s in seems very dense so maybe watering isn’t going the best. I have poked holes to get water in deeper but maybe I need to again. Or check it out more
 
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