Balancing the Journey and Destination

[DrTolhur]

Preface: I apologize if this is a topic that's been discussed. If so, please advise on how to search for it. I couldn't really figure out how to succinctly enter it into the search.

I'm a few months into my bonsai process now, and after watching a ton of videos about growing and pruning bonsai, I'm curious about the balance between having a tree that looks good/decent most of the time and doing what you need to to get to some (relatively) specific goal for the tree. There's obviously a lot of, shall we say, destructive steps in the process (pruning, defoliating, possibly trunk chopping) in order to get the trees to grow in a certain way, but it seems like this could lead to a very sad and ugly tree for years and years until you finally get all the pieces in order to let it actually grow out and take a "final" shape. That doesn't seem like a very pleasant process, though. Wouldn't you want to the tree to be pleasing to look at at least half of the time for the years you spend training it?

So what are y'all's takes on this? Just do what you need to for the future vision? Keep it looking as good as you can the whole time while more gently training? Am I missing anything in this line of thought/questioning?

Corollary: I've heard people refer to a "finished" bonsai, but that seems like something of a contradiction. Since they're living and will continue to grow and change forever while they're alive, what do people mean by a finished bonsai? Once you have a finished bonsai, how do you keep it finished? Is it perhaps only finished for a short time before that finished state becomes an intermediate stage to a new finished?

 

[Zach Smith]

The "finished" state of a bonsai ebbs and flows. No tree can be maintained in a showable state all the time. It's not good for the tree. So once you get past the (often lengthy) development process, you can bring your tree to showable state for a short time, but then you have to let it grow out and pretty much lose that state of perfection. In fact, each season your finished trees will go through growth spurts followed by pruning and pinching. Eventually they get overgrown - all of them do - so you have to hard-prune to recreate the "finished" appearance. Again, ebb and flow.

Once you've been at this long enough, and have acquired enough trees - which, please do, so you don't love any one too much - you'll have a selection of "finished" specimens and others in training, and you'll know exactly where each one is. It's not a burden, it's actually very nice to see a trunk in a pot and know you'll be able to make a bonsai out of it in a few years. The journey is usually much better than the destination (as long as you know you can get there). Bonsai is not about perfect trees, it's about perfecting trees. Perfect is the end of something. Perfecting is a journey that doesn't need to end.

Good luck and welcome!

 

[bonsaichile]

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Don't think of it as waiting on ONE tree to be or become a finished bonsai. Think of multiple trees, each at some point in their march towards being "finished". I'd suggest scraping up and buying at least one mostly-finished bonsai to give you something to admire while waiting and working on your other trees. I think you need something beautiful to get you through the not-so-great years of waiting on trees that, honestly, don't look so great most of the time.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

I like to take long road trips to arbitrary and dismal destinations.

I prefer trees that will take a lot of time and effort to get to a “finished” state.

Plant cultivation and care is my vocation and avocation, and I like to look at all plants even though I earn about half my living by looking at weeds and recommending how to kill them.

Keep trees you like at all stages and you will be happy. My Japanese maple seedlings bring me the most joy of all my trees.

 

[Gene Deci]

When I first joined my club, one of the founding members said something to the effect, "If you don't enjoy the process. don't bother. Bonsai is probably not for you." If you relish the process, good trees will eventually result. That is a win win. So, as has been suggested, aquire a number of trees, realize that they will never be finished and have fun. Or don't bother.

 

[sorce]

Your Journey and a Tree's Journey are two separate things, that will be intertwined in a way that will make them feel as one.

Our selfishness, our need to "keep them looking good all the time" will certainly blur any future vision, if not completely disallow it, since our need to please ourselves is greater than our commitment to a future vision. By the time the tree is ready to become something, it is "ruined", or must be started over, and the sentimental practitioner can't let go of the years of, what then amounts to, half assed work.

That's how people, "do first year bonsai for 40 years", because it takes forty years to make a bonsai.

Don't guide the trees, let the trees guide you.

That's the easiest way to keep individual relationships with the trees, and bring them all to greatness. Some will look relatively nice, or "finished" throughout, some may not.

They will all give you tiny bits of joy, in the little things, every moment you are open to receive them.

Our ability to receive this joy is automatically and absolutely removed when we try to control the trees.

Yes, Balance.

No, no balance at all.

Sorce

 

[caerolle]

My Japanese maple seedlings bring me the most joy of all my trees.

sighs dreamily...

 

[Forsoothe!]

There are lots of different processes for different kinds of trees. Not all require large chops that take forever to evolve to pretty or "finished". Not all trees are bound for pretty, either. Some are intentionally made to be contorted and if not ugly, at least not pretty. You might want to have a variety of trees from small to larger and from graceful in design to rugged, and some inbetween and classified as "other". You'll have opportunities to buy stock that already has some form or style that you can just fine-tune. If fact, lots of those. There are lots of different levels or gradients of nice, just as there are lots of different levels of understanding and skill that, when you arrive at a higher level you can see that there are higher levels you hadn't been aware of earlier. It never ends. Learning never ends. Arriving at a higher level only prepares you to seek the next level.

 

[DrTolhur]

The main theme I'm seeing in the responses is to have many trees so that some are always nice-looking, even if the majority are not. I get that, but I'm not sure it really answers what I was getting at, at least not directly. If I extrapolate a bit, when just considering one tree, the answer is that there is no balancing. You get a vision for the tree, then just do whatever is necessary to get it there without any concern for how nice it looks in the meantime.

The main challenge I have with the "many trees" direction is financial. I don't have any mature trees near the "finished" state because such a tree costs $150+. To obtain a large number of trees would costs hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, which is not an option. So I'm fine for now just to have the few small ones that I don't really do much with except let grow for the time being. My original question was not so much about practice as philosophy.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

If the desire is purely aesthetic, all the resources I have put into the hobby would have been better spent on one finished tree.

If the desire is about increasing the level of joy, I should have purchased all the acer palmatum seedlings I could.

Life is balance.

Nothing makes me angry
Only I can make me angry

Perception is reality

 

[Forsoothe!]

The main theme I'm seeing in the responses is to have many trees so that some are always nice-looking, even if the majority are not. I get that, but I'm not sure it really answers what I was getting at, at least not directly. If I extrapolate a bit, when just considering one tree, the answer is that there is no balancing. You get a vision for the tree, then just do whatever is necessary to get it there without any concern for how nice it looks in the meantime.

The main challenge I have with the "many trees" direction is financial. I don't have any mature trees near the "finished" state because such a tree costs $150+. To obtain a large number of trees would costs hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, which is not an option. So I'm fine for now just to have the few small ones that I don't really do much with except let grow for the time being. My original question was not so much about practice as philosophy.

Thanks for the responses.

It would be a mistake for a greenhorn to own nice trees to start with. You will kill trees through stupidity, ignorance, excess self-confidence, and every other defect of character known to mankind, not even to speak of the misfortunes of weather, pestilence, raccoons, squirrels, deer, goats, elephants, what-have-you. And, some will just drop dead. Better that you grow your own. By the time you get to the point of having nice trees, you'll have enough history with same to keep them alive, sort-of...

 

[Orion_metalhead]

@sorce is spot on in this one in his first paragraph:

"Your Journey and a Tree's Journey are two separate things"

Don't try to bring your trees to our human speed of life, instead, shift your human pace to the tree's patient persistence. Bonsai, for me, is an opportunity to move at a slower, meditative space. Think of your time with your trees as a momentary synchronization of a different understanding of time.

 

[canoeguide]

If I extrapolate a bit, when just considering one tree, the answer is that there is no balancing. You get a vision for the tree, then just do whatever is necessary to get it there without any concern for how nice it looks in the meantime.

I know that you were extrapolating and generalizing, but I don't think this is correct. We tend not to look at a young tree in nature and think "you do not look nice because you are not there yet and you are not my vision." The mature aged tree in nature with the craggy deadwood and the thick-plated bark isn't "finished" either. All the stages have their own beauty, and mostly, we appreciate them as they are, and eventually they change some more.

So too with bonsai: they are always becoming what they will be. The fact that we apply techniques to get them to grow in a pot, and *try* to make them look a way that we see in our mind's eye, does not mean that they will oblige.

To make my point more concrete: I think you can push a tree in a certain direction, and have it look nice "in the meantime." Part of that is philosophical, but part of that is practical: there's no rule that says a tree's present aesthetics need to be disregarded to get it to a certain vision. One can do both.

 

[DrTolhur]

I know that you were extrapolating and generalizing, but I don't think this is correct. We tend not to look at a young tree in nature and think "you do not look nice because you are not there yet and you are not my vision." The mature aged tree in nature with the craggy deadwood and the thick-plated bark isn't "finished" either. All the stages have their own beauty, and mostly, we appreciate them as they are, and eventually they change some more.

The ugly time of trees I'm referring to isn't just the young, undeveloped stage. I mean things like hard pruning, defoliation, trunk chopping -- that sorta thing. These can make a tree look decidedly bad, though it's only for a time and to ultimately make it look better than if you didn't. Certainly any tree can look good all the time if you don't do anything to it. I love the process of watching young trees grow and mature, but it's less...immediately satisfying? (or something like that) to chop down an otherwise nice-looking tree for the sake of the future.

It's akin to saving money. It's not sexy or fun to save, but it's necessary to get to an ultimately better state. But you can go too far. It's good to spend some money as you go to actually enjoy life, but it's also necessary to save for the future. That's the balance I was suggesting with this question. How much do you "save" (i.e. make the tree ugly) in the meantime as you develop a large "nest egg" (i.e. beautiful bonsai) as opposed to "spend everything" (i.e. do nothing) so that you can enjoy what you have immediately.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

If you want a tree to meet your subjective idea of "good" ALL THE TIME, just get a fake one. Maybe bonsai isnt your thing.

 

[DrTolhur]

If you want a tree to meet your subjective idea of "good" ALL THE TIME, just get a fake one. Maybe bonsai isnt your thing.

I feel like people are misunderstanding or misinterpreting my point. I never indicated that I expect the tree to be beautiful all the time nor that I am unwilling to execute standard bonsai techniques. I love the process of watching the trees grow and develop. This was simply a question about what, if any, balance there is between being ugly all the way until "showtime" vs. being decent-looking along the way, perhaps sacrificing some of the "final" appearance (journey vs. destination).

Please don't read into things or make inferences. I'm just trying to explore and pick the minds of those more experienced.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I feel like people are misunderstanding or misinterpreting my point. I never indicated that I expect the tree to be beautiful all the time nor that I am unwilling to execute standard bonsai techniques. I love the process of watching the trees grow and develop. This was simply a question about what, if any, balance there is between being ugly all the way until "showtime" vs. being decent-looking along the way, perhaps sacrificing some of the "final" appearance (journey vs. destination).

Please don't read into things or make inferences. I'm just trying to explore and pick the minds of those more experienced.

Some people are into bonsai to own nice trees, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's like owning art because you have a blank wall. Others are into bonsai because they like to do the work and the results, like painters that paint constantly and sell their work for whatever they can get but have kept just a few on their own walls. There's room for all comers and they can just kinda settle inbetween wherever they feel comfortable. I like to think I create beautiful trees and have the tools to do so. I've never had any interest in creating paintings or any other artsy-crafty thing, and don't have any art related skills or interest. Still, I fit into bonsai nicely (for me).

 

[penumbra]

The simple solution. perhaps the only real solution is to have enough to work on to satisfy both sensibilities. After that, he who knows he has enough will always have enough.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

My point is that beauty is subjective. You cant balance anything when the fulcrum is always moving. You are looking for balance where balance cant be found.