Bald Cypress trunk chop

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I have a bald cypress tree with a six inch diameter trunk at the base. It has really nice nebari, but i want it to develop some nice butresses and right now it has none. how can i develop the butresses? should i go ahead and chop it this year or continue to let it grow? will it form butresses after i chop the trunk? also i know the 6 to one proportion rule, but how tall should i do the initial trunk chop?
 

Martin Sweeney

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Beetleman72,

Please post some pictures so folks can see what you are working with.

Regards,
Martin
 

johng

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...unfortunately I don't think I have ever seen anyone develop any significant fluting on BC while in a container. Its just a theory, but I suspect the second you chop a BC any hopes of developing fluting is out the window...I really think that is a characteristic brought on by height....as in 25' or more. I think your very best course of action is to accept that tree for what it is and then collect or purchase a BC with the characteristics you want from the start.

Good luck!!
John
 

rockm

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BC won't really develop fluting once they're put in a pot of any sort, as John said. The fluting develops from strong root run. In other words, in the ground, roots have a much larger space to work with and develop much more quickly. Those primary roots, extending and growing in a place where the resources are much better, directly develop the ridges on the lower trunk of BC.

Best way to develop fluting is to plant the tree in the ground and let it alone for a few years. In N.C. you will probably see significant development in a pretty short amount of time (like three years). BC can be root pruned significantly at collection, which means you will probably be able to pop it out of the ground with little trouble.
 
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In order to develop taper I have it planted in a huge pot, I think it's 20 gallon. Would that be enough space for the roots or should I still put it in the ground?
 

rockm

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It's not going to develop any significant fluting in a container of any sort, short of a bathtub or larger sized pot:D

It's roots need to "run" to develop significantly and for those roots to push vigorous top growth. The two are interrelated in how fluting develops from what I've seen. Restricting the tree in a pot limits that capacity for development. The more vigorous the root, the more significant the fluting will be on the trunk.
 
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Poink88

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I agree with johng and rockm. Buttress is formed by the tree countering stress (force)...think of it as flexing muscles built over the years as it tries to stabilize itself from wind forces and/or by its own weight. All these forces are multiplied by distance (as in leverage ;) ). In a pot, you loose all those and rely on regular girth growth.

That said, I am hatching an idea on how to stimulate buttressing on potted trees though. :D Will let you know if and when I get any results.
 

rockm

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"Buttress is formed by the tree countering stress"

Don't know if that's completely accurate.

I've seen fluting in very young BC that haven't really been subject to much stress. It has more to do, I think, with dominant roots pushing dominant top branching--think of the root as a fire hose that pushes water to branches--the more top growth, the more water flows through the hose, making the ridges bulge.

I have a seedling-sized BC that has begun pushing two primary roots in opposing directions. One is beginning to swell a side of the seedling's trunk. This tree has spent a lot of its life overwintering in a garage and protected from forces that might destabilize it.

Research by Lousiana universities notes that fluting (and there are several different kinds of fluting on BC according to local environments) tends to correlate with the degree, frequency and duration of water levels. Deeper water tends to produce high, bottle-shaped bases, while lower water levels produce deeply ridged fluting that is flatter and lower to the ground.

Sorry, all of this is just the wandering mind of a big BC fan. They are fascinating trees.
 

Poink88

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Don't know if that's completely accurate.

I've seen fluting in very young BC that haven't really been subject to much stress. It has more to do, I think, with dominant roots pushing dominant top branching--think of the root as a fire hose that pushes water to branches--the more top growth, the more water flows through the hose, making the ridges bulge.
You could be right but I will counter that it is formed due to the the massive supply of lignin produced by the foliage flowing the natural way down PLUS the force/stress the tree carries at that side.

Research by Lousiana universities notes that fluting (and there are several different kinds of fluting on BC according to local environments) tends to correlate with the degree, frequency and duration of water levels. Deeper water tends to produce high, bottle-shaped bases, while lower water levels produce deeply ridged fluting that is flatter and lower to the ground.
Did they survey under the water to check for fluting there? Roots are on soil...not floating on water. The bottle type trunk you see is just trunk plus some roots diving down, if there is any fluting it is under probably even buried.

I've grown where trees have massive fluting (esp in proportion to their height) ...the best formed are always from those growing in unstable ground like river banks....especially those on top. I believe they compensate for it to remain standing.

All these said, we do not have BC where I grew up so you could be right.
 
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ok, ive been told that if you put a tree in a container on the ground, the roots will go through the drainage holes into the ground and then when youre ready to move it you can just cut along the bottom of the pot and simply lift up the tree pot and all. does anyone have any experience with this or do i just need to take it out of the pot and put it in the ground?
 

rockm

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YOU DON'T need a container in the ground. The tree has to push roots THROUGH the container and into the ground--for an appreciable amount of time--to get any benefit from ground growing. Planting it directly into the ground will produce faster and better results.

The only reason to plant a container in the ground is to speed its re-collection. If you only allow the tree to grow so that snipping small roots off outside the container is enough to re-collect it, it's not been in the ground long enough to produce and significant trunk development.

Since BC can be root pruned dramatically, like 99 percent at re-collection, so trying to keep a neat compact root mass in an underground container isn't necessary. You can saw through heavy roots at re-collection, redeveloping a neater root base as the tree re-adapts to a container.

Poink,

The research done by Louisiana State University surveyed thousands of trees, logging histories, location surveys and other data. If you're interested in BC, get the book "The Tree Unique, The Wood Enternal"--it is pretty much a definitive work on BC and its habits. Can't recommend it enough for those growing BC as bonsai.

From the research and personal observation, BC structures vary tremendously from site to site. Bottle-shaped trees in deep water swamps, flat-surfaced rooting in shallow water or mucky sites or a combination of both. In some sites, there are floating roots below the bottle-shape, extending to another narrower trunk that shoots straight into the swamp bottom with no flare...There are other trees with deep ridged fluting growing on dry sites that's flooded only a few times in a century...

I spent alot of time in Gulf Coast Texas near Orange growing up. The BC down there are spectacular and made a lasting impression.
 
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it also has this weird root that wraps around the trunk. can anyone tell me how to remedy that? you can see the root in question on the first picture.
 

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Brian Van Fleet

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it also has this weird root that wraps around the trunk. can anyone tell me how to remedy that? you can see the root in question on the first picture.

Cut a wedge out of the offending root. Then, over the course of this year, expand the wedge a little at a time until it's severed.
 

rockm

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Are there an appreciable amount of feeder roots attached to it? If you don't know, Brian's advice is the best approach to removing it (gradually--cut doesn't really make that much difference. The aim is to slowly weaken the root and have the tree adjust to rely on its other roots.)
 

jkd2572

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Just cut that root completely off. The term for that kind of root is ugly;). It's a bald cypress. Short of putting it through a wood chipper it will recover. I can't believe these trees have not takin over the world for their ability to survive abuse.
 

rockm

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Do you have a concave cutter?
 
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