Bald Cyprus root twist

[skjohnson37]

I'm honestly not even sure what to call this, nevermind what to do with it. I picked this guy up at a local nursery today because I was interested in the twin trunk effect (which I didn't see on any other BCs there, seedling or mature), but I'm not sure if I'll be able to do anything with the roots.

Thoughts from you expert types?

 

[rockm]

The roots are not great for bonsai at this point (And why are you barerooting now?) That kink in the roots is likely from being started in a container.

FWIW, the "twin trunk" is hardly unique for BC. They backbud when pruned. Sometimes you get two or three or eight or whatever new shoots that develop from that site, or even from a non-pruned site where dual buds are present.

You can plant this one out for a couple of years to grow out. If you keep it in a container--next spring, I'd prune the tangle back to the first feeder root you see (hopefully it's above the tangle, although it doesn't have to be) and plant in wet soil The idea is that the pruning will stimulate new root growth above that tangle. If you don't start working to get rid of it, it will remain an issue as the tree matures.

 

[skjohnson37]

The roots are not great for bonsai at this point (And why are you barerooting now?) That kink in the roots is likely from being started in a container.

FWIW, the "twin trunk" is hardly unique for BC. They backbud when pruned. Sometimes you get two or three or eight or whatever new shoots that develop from that site, or even from a non-pruned site where dual buds are present.

You can plant this one out for a couple of years to grow out. If you keep it in a container--next spring, I'd prune the tangle back to the first feeder root you see (hopefully it's above the tangle, although it doesn't have to be) and plant in wet soil The idea is that the pruning will stimulate new root growth above that tangle. If you don't start working to get rid of it, it will remain an issue as the tree matures.

I wanted to get it out of the tiny container it was in and put it in something bigger. When I pulled it out, the soil collapsed away from the roots.

I'll give the root trim a chance, but really appreciate what you shared about growing out multiple trunks. Thanks.

 

[Cajunrider]

There is not much you can do with that contorted root. Grow the tree for a year then next year or the year after do a ground layer to get rid of the twisting root. I have done that to multiple BCs.

 

[skjohnson37]

There is not much you can do with that contorted root. Grow the tree for a year then next year or the year after do a ground layer to get rid of the twisting root. I have done that to multiple BCs.

*heads off to learn about ground layers*

 

[rockm]

BTW,

You don't say where you are in Va., but BC are pretty common in nurseries, at least in N.Va. I suspect all over the state as well. They're native all the way up through Delaware...

 

[rockm]

*heads off to learn about ground layers*

Basically, getting the tree to produce a new set of roots above a problem are.

 

[skjohnson37]

BTW,

You don't say where you are in Va., but BC are pretty common in nurseries, at least in N.Va. I suspect all over the state as well. They're native all the way up through Delaware...

I'm in Stafford.

 

[Cajunrider]

*heads off to learn about ground layers*

Here you go.

BC ground layer

I have a little bald cypress tree with a tangled root base. One that is impossible to untangle. So a ground layer is needed to develop a new root base. The cut has been made. Now come the wait for it to dry out and assure the layer. This afternoon root hormone will be applied and the layer will...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[sorce]

Sorce

 

[Maiden69]

BC's at this stage are very malleable. Get a wire and wire it loosely from the base of the roots to the trunk, then soften up the curves and plant it again. As it grows it will soften up the curves. Be very vigilant and start undoing/relocating the wire as it grows, bite in wire marks tend to be visible for years. I did a lot of hard curves on my seedlings and by the end of the first year they were barely noticeable. If you do this, plant it like @source image above my post.

 

[rockm]

I'm in Stafford.

If you're after only seedlings, you can mail order them from many sources. Some folks sell them on Ebay, Etsy, etc. BC are extremely easy to grow and develop, BUT with seedlings this size, the initial part of that is just allowing them to grow. Around here you can plant them in the ground for five years to develop trunk size and character, then dig them up (dig is misleading, you take a pruning saw and saw off all of the roots a couple of inches down) Then replant in wet soil to reestablish root. This process is best done in the spring.

TBH, this seedling isn't worth the trouble of ground layering and may be too young for the process at this point. The trunk isn't big enough to take the damage.

FWIW, most folks who like BC start with established larger trees. Containerized from a nursery is a great start. Meadows Farms nurseries have them, as do many nurseries in the N. Va. area. probably in Fredericksburg too. You can go as large as you want from those sources (BIG ball and burlapped trees, although expensive, are also fair game). Depends on what you want to do.

Also, I began BC bonsai with a large collected stump I bought from Zach Smith at Bonsai South bonsai nursery 25 years ago. I've been very happy with it. Not cheap, but buying a larger BC trunk pays off sooner than a seedling. BC are almost impossible to kill--overwintering can be an issue, but with proper protection, it's not a deal killer.

 

[skjohnson37]

If you're after only seedlings, you can mail order them from many sources. Some folks sell them on Ebay, Etsy, etc. BC are extremely easy to grow and develop, BUT with seedlings this size, the initial part of that is just allowing them to grow. Around here you can plant them in the ground for five years to develop trunk size and character, then dig them up (dig is misleading, you take a pruning saw and saw off all of the roots a couple of inches down) Then replant in wet soil to reestablish root. This process is best done in the spring.

TBH, this seedling isn't worth the trouble of ground layering and may be too young for the process at this point. The trunk isn't big enough to take the damage.

FWIW, most folks who like BC start with established larger trees. Containerized from a nursery is a great start. Meadows Farms nurseries have them, as do many nurseries in the N. Va. area. probably in Fredericksburg too. You can go as large as you want from those sources (BIG ball and burlapped trees, although expensive, are also fair game). Depends on what you want to do.

Also, I began BC bonsai with a large collected stump I bought from Zach Smith at Bonsai South bonsai nursery 25 years ago. I've been very happy with it. Not cheap, but buying a larger BC trunk pays off sooner than a seedling. BC are almost impossible to kill--overwintering can be an issue, but with proper protection, it's not a deal killer.

I considered picking up an established tree from the same place, but decided to start with this. I'm going to let you talk me into running up and buying it this afternoon. Can't have too many trees at one time, right?

 

[rockm]

I considered picking up an established tree from the same place, but decided to start with this. I'm going to let you talk me into running up and buying it this afternoon. Can't have too many trees at one time, right?

Before you run out and get that big one, some considerations:

You won't be able to "work" it until next spring. Repotting and hard pruning now is late. Fall is only ten weeks away. That's not a lot of time for the tree to recover.

Also you have to make sure you have space to overwinter the tree in its nursery pot now and in a bonsai pot in the future. They're entirely winter hardy here. I mulch mine into a garden bed in my backyard. I put the pot on a couple of bricks to insure a dead drainage spot underneath the pot and pile eight to ten inches of shredded hardwood mulch over the pot up three inches or so of the trunk. It's worked for over 20 years.

 

[skjohnson37]

Before you run out and get that big one, some considerations:

You won't be able to "work" it until next spring. Repotting and hard pruning now is late. Fall is only ten weeks away. That's not a lot of time for the tree to recover.

Also you have to make sure you have space to overwinter the tree in its nursery pot now and in a bonsai pot in the future. They're entirely winter hardy here. I mulch mine into a garden bed in my backyard. I put the pot on a couple of bricks to insure a dead drainage spot underneath the pot and pile eight to ten inches of shredded hardwood mulch over the pot up three inches or so of the trunk. It's worked for over 20 years.

I can definitely do all of that. Good gouge on the mulching. I'd not have thought of that.

 

[Cajunrider]

Before you run out and get that big one, some considerations:

You won't be able to "work" it until next spring. Repotting and hard pruning now is late. Fall is only ten weeks away. That's not a lot of time for the tree to recover.

Also you have to make sure you have space to overwinter the tree in its nursery pot now and in a bonsai pot in the future. They're entirely winter hardy here. I mulch mine into a garden bed in my backyard. I put the pot on a couple of bricks to insure a dead drainage spot underneath the pot and pile eight to ten inches of shredded hardwood mulch over the pot up three inches or so of the trunk. It's worked for over 20 years.

My current plan when I move to PA is to winter my BCs in Igloo containers filled with pine bark mulch to protect the roots from severe low temperature because the roots will be in pot instead of being in the ground. The top should have no issue.
PS: I have done that successfully with tropical trees in the past wintering them in Louisiana during freezing weather. I put a layer of mulch down in the igloo, then place the pot on top and cover it with another layer of mulch.

 

[rockm]

My current plan when I move to PA is to winter my BCs in Igloo containers filled with pine bark mulch to protect the roots from severe low temperature because the roots will be in pot instead of being in the ground. The top should have no issue.
PS: I have done that successfully with tropical trees in the past wintering them in Louisiana during freezing weather. I put a layer of mulch down in the igloo, then place the pot on top and cover it with another layer of mulch.

Not a great idea, IMO. That's too much. Igloo will also insulate the roots from the ambient warmth in the ground. You'd be trying to conserve heat that isn't there to begin with. Mulched into a bed on the ground traps the ambient "warmth" from the more-stable earth. In an igloo container, you're relying on air temp.

 

[Maiden69]

Igloo makes no sense at all, like @rockm says it will insulate the roots from the warmth from the ground. I would rather build a removable green house tent with PVC hoops, place the trees on the ground and lay fresh mulch covering the pots on the sides. BC roots can take quite a bit of cold, the problem is when you get cold + wind. My 3 BC were still on water when we had the 2 week snow storm, and the water was a solid piece of ice for those 2 weeks. All of them made it fine. I think if it had been any longer they may have died... in a place like PA, I would definitely won't leave them in water, but place them on the ground.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I'll probably be in the minority, but I would celebrate the uniqueness of what nature put into that tree. I would expose as much of that gnarly root as possible. Will it be a "traditional" bonsai? No. Will it conform to the "rules"? No. Will it tell a story that the viewer will have to fill in, in his own mind? Definitely. There will be other trees and other bald cypresses in your life that can conform to the norms. I'll bet this tree will always have a soft spot in your heart.

 

[skjohnson37]

I'll probably be in the minority, but I would celebrate the uniqueness of what nature put into that tree. I would expose as much of that gnarly root as possible. Will it be a "traditional" bonsai? No. Will it conform to the "rules"? No. Will it tell a story that the viewer will have to fill in, in his own mind? Definitely. There will be other trees and other bald cypresses in your life that can conform to the norms. I'll bet this tree will always have a soft spot in your heart.

I've considered this exact possibility. I've thought about pushing the 'base' of the tree down to expose the full corkscrew and let the root run off to the side before spreading, and will definitely consider it further before taking any decisions. (That's actually become one of my favorite parts of developing bonsai: that almost nothing requires an immediate decision.)

It WOULD look scraggly and unique, and as I don't intend to ever show my trees formally, who really cares, right?

I enjoy this site for so many reasons, chiefly the absolute mountain of knowledge held by the users, but seeing the different ways we choose to develop our trees is high on the list, too.