Bare-rooting young pines?

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Super informative thanks! I'm reporting my first conifer (a Black hills spruce I believe, one of the ones they sell add Christmas trees at nurseries) and I want to get rid of all the soil, trim the roots, and repot in a colonder. The local hydroponics store offers stump tea that I want to reinnocculate with. Glad to get advice from somebody with formal training in the stuff!

I would not do en entire rootball wash on spruces, they can be finnicky about it, especially when they're older. Maybe a half bare root repot is more suited to the plants wants and needs.

I have some disagreements with dr. O'Hanlon about mycorrhizae, because I believe that the claim of "endomyc isn't able to connect to plants past their seedling stage" is not entirely true. We simply don't know. There are millions of strains out there of the same fungus, just because we couldn't connect 200 of them, it doesn't mean it's not happening. I haven't found a study that actually compared the endo myc genotypes found in young plants and the ones found, for instance, fifteen years later. I wouldn't even know how to test that either. I did found studies that showed seedlings inoculated with store bought myc had a lower chance (! Not an impossibility) of associating with wild soil fungi 75 +/-28 days later.

@Deep Sea Diver do you know if there have been studies like that?

 

[NamesakE]

I would not do en entire rootball wash on spruces, they can be finnicky about it, especially when they're older. Maybe a half bare root repot is more suited to the plants wants and needs.

I have some disagreements with dr. O'Hanlon about mycorrhizae, because I believe that the claim of "endomyc isn't able to connect to plants past their seedling stage" is not entirely true. We simply don't know. There are millions of strains out there of the same fungus, just because we couldn't connect 200 of them, it doesn't mean it's not happening. I haven't found a study that actually compared the endo myc genotypes found in young plants and the ones found, for instance, fifteen years later. I wouldn't even know how to test that either. I did found studies that showed seedlings inoculated with store bought myc had a lower chance (! Not an impossibility) of associating with wild soil fungi 75 +/-28 days later.

@Deep Sea Diver do you know if there have been studies like that?

Thanks again! I don't know how old it is, I wouldn't imagine too old since it's nursery stuff but what do I know? I'll do a half repot then. I've done some pruning but there's still a lot I need to take off before it looks like anything worthwhile. Still figuring out the balance between when I do major cut-backs/styling and when I can repot.... And holy hell my spelling is atrocious! I really need to stop trusting my auto fill so much!

 

[Lorax7]

Japanese white pines are not so much fans of this..... at least in my experience.

My experience is the same with barerooting JWP seedlings. Bought 5 last spring and barerooted them to grow out with the ultimate goal of transforming them into exposed root style and ROR plantings. None of the 5 survived.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I would not do en entire rootball wash on spruces, they can be finnicky about it, especially when they're older. Maybe a half bare root repot is more suited to the plants wants and needs.

I have some disagreements with dr. O'Hanlon about mycorrhizae, because I believe that the claim of "endomyc isn't able to connect to plants past their seedling stage" is not entirely true. We simply don't know. There are millions of strains out there of the same fungus, just because we couldn't connect 200 of them, it doesn't mean it's not happening. I haven't found a study that actually compared the endo myc genotypes found in young plants and the ones found, for instance, fifteen years later. I wouldn't even know how to test that either. I did found studies that showed seedlings inoculated with store bought myc had a lower chance (! Not an impossibility) of associating with wild soil fungi 75 +/-28 days later.

@Deep Sea Diver do you know if there have been studies like that?

Hmm… not directly, but this area is getting to be a really hot topic in ag/hort fields. Similar to wintering over and Biochar fields. It’s a race to find ways to make soils and plants more productive to meet the needs of the growing population.

As an example I ran across this article yesterday indicating there is lots more progress in growth promoting rhizobacteria research of late, its a good bet there is similar research on rhizofungi… but haven’t had a chance to run down the cites, which may help you.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2021.617157/full

Let me know if this helps

btw even Karen said there are always exceptions.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Hmm… not directly, but this area is getting to be a really hot topic in ag/hort fields. Similar to wintering over and Biochar fields. It’s a race to find ways to make soils and plants more productive to meet the needs of the growing population.

As an example I ran across this article yesterday indicating there is lots more progress in growth promoting rhizobacteria research of late, its a good bet there is similar research on rhizofungi… but haven’t had a chance to run down the cites, which may help you.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2021.617157/full

Let me know if this helps

btw even Karen said there are always exceptions.

cheers
DSD sends

Cool, thanks! I've been following the subject for about a decade now and it's mostly crop research with a huge economic impact. Very little long term tree research.

But in general terms I keep finding that most of the bacteria used in these studies are common non-obligate fermenting bacteria; the stuff you find in kimchi and bokashi fermentation.
So I set up both systems and I dusted off my old centrifuge to isolate these bacteria (bokashi is hot on the nutrient scale, kimchi is salty) from a solution and re-introduce them in my own charcoal together with humic and fulvic acid and a sprinkle of kelp extract.
I might mix a couple sprays as well. See what happens with foliar sprays.

 

[HamburgerTrain]

Cool, thanks! I've been following the subject for about a decade now and it's mostly crop research with a huge economic impact. Very little long term tree research.

But in general terms I keep finding that most of the bacteria used in these studies are common non-obligate fermenting bacteria; the stuff you find in kimchi and bokashi fermentation.
So I set up both systems and I dusted off my old centrifuge to isolate these bacteria (bokashi is hot on the nutrient scale, kimchi is salty) from a solution and re-introduce them in my own charcoal together with humic and fulvic acid and a sprinkle of kelp extract.
I might mix a couple sprays as well. See what happens with foliar sprays.

Making me hungry

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Making me hungry

Kimchi is so easy to make if you buy a batch from an old asian lady. It's a big plus if it's a home made batch. Their bacteria have always performed better than the supermarket stuff. 10/10 batches went well.

Soak veggies in 7% seasalt and 93% tap water for a day. Then put them in a jar, add spices, and water with 3% seasalt and 97% tapwater. Put some skewers on top so the veggies don't float upwards. Add a thumb-thick layer of sunflower oil.
Then add some of the kimchi juice from the batch you bought. Put the lid on the jar but leave it loose.
Leave at room temp for about 5 days, then another 10 in a colder location. Store in the fridge. Bon appletree!
Smell it often, if it smells rotten, it's compost. If it smells delicious, it's delicious.

Never use regular salt because that usually contains iodine, which acts as a bactericide.

 

[Bonds Guy]

How many inches of root did you leave after bare rooting? Where was the right picture cut from?

I focused more on leaving enough feeder roots rather than the length of roots, but if I had to guess I'd say they're about 5-6 inches. The roots from the picture on the right are roots I couldn't get to bend horizontally. I believed they stemmed directly from under the tree.