Bark Mold- can this bark (or the tree itself?) be salvaged or is it too-far gone?

[SU2]

In the past 6mo I've gradually shifted from DE granules to perlite in a lot of my mixes, anyways I've got some specimen that were in just perlite and in very small containers so they'd dry-out incredibly quickly and thus I'd water them all the time, letting them 'get dry before a good soaking' wasn't so easy when the time between 'dry' and 'dead' seemed a pretty narrow divide.. Anyways I got to the problematic spot I'm in now, where I've got specimen that have such thick mold(fungus?) on their bases that I fear that, at a minimum, I can kiss that bark good-bye and at worst will not even be able to salvage the specimen... All I've done so far, upon seeing the issue start taking-hold, was pull the perlite from the trunks to help them breathe better, make sure the sun's hitting these spots, top-dressed a little to reduce watering-frequency, and have been using a small paintbrush to treat them w/ undiluted hydrogen peroxide (which seems like a band-aid, only helps slow the spread but doesn't look like it'll do more than that)

They're all bougies FWIW, they're hardwood cuttings I took through the summer and they're doing well as far as root&shoot growth but many are afflicted with this substrate-line trunk-rot (mold/fungus/bacteria/etc), have no idea what I can do about it at this point or how serious it is to the trees' health, wish I could go back and have used some DE in the mixes to have reduced # of waterings!!



[note: the first picture also has some 'ball' growth on the trunk above the mold, I'm unsure if it's related or not and suspect it is although it's the only such instance and I've probably got 10 bougies with this type of mold-at-soil-line issue :/ ]

Any thoughts/help on this one would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks for reading

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Bougainvillea is a shrubby vine, not a tree, and it has very soft wood. You really can't keep any exposed deadwood on a bougie bonsai - it will rot regardless of what you do. The fungus you see is probably providing a beneficial service and is breaking down the deadwood of the stump. As long as you still see new fresh growth, the stump is not dead. However you will likely end up with something that looks a lot different from what you started with

 

[SU2]

Thanks!! Am always happy when I check my email for new posts and see you've replied ;D

Bougainvillea is a shrubby vine, not a tree, and it has very soft wood.

But "my bonsai shrub collection" just doesn't have the same ring to it... I know they're vines but they can be trained as trees, heck even their wiki describes them as "a genus of thorny ornamental vines, bushes, and trees", it's all in how you train them! Of course though you're right they're not 'true' trees in the sense of an Oak or Maple, but they can be made like trees and it's been working for me so I just refer to them as trees

You really can't keep any exposed deadwood on a bougie bonsai - it will rot regardless of what you do.

I'm always confused by this- is bark considered deadwood? Because the bark is what's rotting on this, not the deadwood at the top where it was cut - I've had a lot of trouble grasping just what constitutes "deadwood", for instance when I carve/grind into a trunk for taper and go through bark/phlo^xyl/softwood/hard-/heart-wood, but I'm hoping that the area callouses and gets bark eventually, is it considered deadwood in the meanwhile? I guess I got to the point of thinking that jin/shari were 'deadwood' and that wounds on the trunk weren't, have not been able to properly grasp just when it's 'deadwood' outside the shari/jin context..

The fungus you see is probably providing a beneficial service and is breaking down the deadwood of the stump.

While that little truncheon of a cutting surely has a lot to be carved-off I wanted to do that myself! I also wonder at the very idea of this- if the fungi gets such a strong hold on a specimen, won't it be there forever? If it's fungi (and not mold), then it sends out 'strands'/'shoots' of its own into the material around it, am wondering how I could ever get rid of it once it's taken hold (surely the benefits you're mentioning right now ie removal of unneeded wood are only temporary, ie there's no benefits to it if I just used my grinders to get the thing shaped today, if I did that I'd have good shape but still have the mold- wouldn't it continue onward, and start eating live tissue?)

As long as you still see new fresh growth, the stump is not dead.

It's growing vigorously thankfully, I guess I'm looking at it and worrying that the tree/vine is simply doing a good job compartmentalizing it right now, my worry isn't so much 'right now' it's the idea that this degree of mold/fungi (are you sure on fungi? Am unsure if 1 is more desirable than the other in this context, presumably fungi would be) will never go away and will forever plague the thing..

However you will likely end up with something that looks a lot different from what you started with

No question!! I started with a ~4" piece of trunk from a large bush, this was one of many hardwood cuttings I started doing once I realized the success rate was high90%'s on hardwood propagation of any size (I've got wayyy bigger clubs that still rooted, will attach a pic just for the absurdity of my biggest one!), but when you say 'different' are you referring to more than the differences that'd be inherent in shaping this? I was planning to wait until spring and, at time of up-potting it to a real container, I'd take the tools out and carve the stump down to where that single shoot is, ending with a really chubby, shohin-sized specimen....will this mold/fungi cause other aesthetic changes I'm not grasping? Will it shrink the girth of the stump? Can it get into the living tissue?
[edit: Can't believe I forgot to ask you this: with how weak/spongey bougie-bark is, what about just peeling-off the affected areas? It's been a while but I've seen a picture of a bougie that had its bark stripped and I actually really liked it, had asked on reddit about how to approach doing tha (on-purpose) and was basically told that the bark's what I want and it'd be dumb to remove any intentionally, though I still look at the ones with moldy-bark and think that peeling them would just make their trunks look 'smoother', more like a crape myrtle. Is there anything about that that would harm the tree badly? Is it really that much of a 'bonsai aesthetic' faux pas? Thanks!! ]

Pic of my largest cutting, was more an experiment to see if a log would take-root and it did (and this club is only ~4" into the perlite...it also sat for ~24hrs between being cut from a live specimen and being potted, sitting outside in open-air!)



Sorry such a long reply and thanks again for reading&answering my thread

 

[Bonsai Nut]

the tree/vine is simply doing a good job compartmentalizing

I think that is the challenge with large cuttings. In many cases you won't get roots all the way around the base of the trunk, and the side without roots will die... so that the entire side of the trunk will eventually rot. If you use a different method (like air-layering) that has a higher likelihood of developing roots all the way around the trunk, you are more likely to keep the entire trunk.

As far as fungus goes, I am by no means a fungus expert. However my understanding is that fungus spores can pretty much be everywhere, and they are just looking for an opportunity for a good environment in order to reproduce. That is why it is really critical to sterilize your tools if you have a tree that you suspect of having a fungus infection - because the fastest way to spread fungus is by using dirty tools to cut open healthy plants. In places like Southern California where people often use commercial gardening services, diseases / pests spread like wildfire - because the gardeners pass them from home to home and tree to tree. In most cases, a healthy uninjured plant can protect itself from fungus, and many fungi are beneficial - if not symbiotic. But some fungi are aggressive plant killers. Those are the ones to be careful about and watch for.

 

[GrimLore]

Any thoughts/help on this one would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks for reading

I am pretty certain you already have a pound of Sulfur powder. As Greg stated it is a natural process BUT if you do not like the look try this -

Make a heavy water/sulfur paste, guessing from what I see 4 tablespoons will be plenty. Paint the nasty looking stuff with it and let it rest 30 minutes or so on a sunny breezy day. Take a spray bottle of water and rinse it off. Let it dry completely and repeat until you see what you want to see in regards to color...

I use that method after moss removal on all types of plants when the moss is destroying the bark. I have shown the process to members here on their plants and it WORKS. It just takes a few steps to get the affected area to the "tone" you like and prevents continual rotting for a long time.

PM me for a number or I can call you for more exact details as typing all would take far longer then a 10 minute call.

Grimmy

 

[twisted trees]

Scrub it off with a stiff nylon or a soft wire brush then wash it.

 

[M. Frary]

Scrub it off with a stiff nylon or a soft wire brush then wash it.

That's what she said.

 

[Carol 83]

That's what she said.

I literally just spit soda on my desk, laughing. Pretty sure if it needed all that, she just said NOPE.

 

[GrimLore]

Scrub it off with a stiff nylon or a soft wire brush then wash it.

It is not Moss it is Algae. Must remove it and prevent it from returning. It also includes different water practices and why I told him to call me

Grimmy

 

[twisted trees]

I literally just spit soda on my desk, laughing. Pretty sure if it needed all that, she just said NOPE.

It might be an old leprosy cure for Leviticus.

 

[SU2]

I think that is the challenge with large cuttings. In many cases you won't get roots all the way around the base of the trunk, and the side without roots will die... so that the entire side of the trunk will eventually rot. If you use a different method (like air-layering) that has a higher likelihood of developing roots all the way around the trunk, you are more likely to keep the entire trunk.

As far as fungus goes, I am by no means a fungus expert. However my understanding is that fungus spores can pretty much be everywhere, and they are just looking for an opportunity for a good environment in order to reproduce. That is why it is really critical to sterilize your tools if you have a tree that you suspect of having a fungus infection - because the fastest way to spread fungus is by using dirty tools to cut open healthy plants. In places like Southern California where people often use commercial gardening services, diseases / pests spread like wildfire - because the gardeners pass them from home to home and tree to tree. In most cases, a healthy uninjured plant can protect itself from fungus, and many fungi are beneficial - if not symbiotic. But some fungi are aggressive plant killers. Those are the ones to be careful about and watch for.

That makes sense re homogeneity of rooting around the perimeter, I've seen as much in cuttings that I transplanted out of my propagation-bed and into containers, I guess all I can do is watch the progression and see what happens! The plan for most of them is to wait until very-early spring, when I'll have a huge collection of concrete containers (am at 5 now, about to do another session today!), and take all of these to the grinding-table and carve-out all the dead spots + carve the trunks to taper-into the shoots I've grown, hopefully they all survive til then!!

Also thanks for the advice on spreading it, I'm definitely not cleaning my hand-cutters nearly as often as I should..

 

[SU2]

Scrub it off with a stiff nylon or a soft wire brush then wash it.

Unfortunately I can't really do anything physically-aggressive, most of the problem-specimen are hardwood cuttings that're ~3-6mo old, barely have root systems and were recently (~1mo ago) taken from ground --> containers, they're not well-anchored in their containers at all so any scrubbing would just be tearing roots apart (they're in pure perlite substrate, very sharp to the fragile bougie roots!)

Thanks for the suggestion though, I do have a massive (~13-15" wide trunk) bougie that does have a strong root-mass and also has large problem areas, I'll be using the wire-brush (and subsequent wash) on that!! What would you recommend for the wash? I've heard vinegar and peroxide, right now am just using peroxide with a paint brush but will mix-up a solution like osoyoung mentions!

 

[twisted trees]

Water. Some add Superthrive.