Basement Greenhouse light schedule

[Will.power49]

So having my bonsai in the basement for the first time at the new house. I have been using 2x60watt grow lights, set to a 12/12 light schedule since I brought them in November . About 2 weeks about I changed the light to 16/8 light schedule. And yesterday I noticed that my willow tree and stared to produce new leaf's my forsythias bud are filling out with some already blooming.

Figure this may be a good thing to get the trees slowly brought of the hibernating and getting them fired up for the growing season.

 

[sorce]

Sounds Dangerous!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Cadillactaste]

For ones to better understand your location. If you could fill out your location. Would be great.

Where had you wintered these trees prior to offering lights? The temps found in that location if sheltered in?

My forsythia has flower buds setting...its ahead of most as its still working to acclimate to my climate coming from Florida. But they all reside in a controlled cold greenhouse. I've not turned my lights on to encourage them to wake. I try and keep them slow to wake.

 

[Paradox]

I have my tropicals on a 16/8 light/dark schedule as well and they put out new leaves most of the winter.

Arent willow and forsythia temperate plants? I know both grow around here so not sure why you have them inside?

You really need to put your location on your profile so we can give you the best advice for your area

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

For my tropicals, I run my lights 18 hours on, 6 hours off. Studies done with pine trees showed this maximized growth. No improvement from longer day length. Definitely less sugars produced for each hour under 18 hours.

For my temperate species. They are in the dark. As long as the temperature is below 40 F or 4 C, there is no need for light.

 

[Cadillactaste]

For my tropicals, I run my lights 18 hours on, 6 hours off. Studies done with pine trees showed this maximized growth. No improvement from longer day length. Definitely less sugars produced for each hour under 18 hours.

For my temperate species. They are in the dark. As long as the temperature is below 40 F or 4 C, there is no need for light.

My tropicals are on the same schedule.

Cold greenhouse at 32-35F. For dormant trees.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If one has lights in their cold winter storage, they should be at 10 hours or less to keep day length sensitive trees dormant. Lights are not really necessary if your dormancy area stays below 38 - 40 F.

If your cold dormancy area runs warner than 40 F. Then lights or sunlight is more a necessity. Many non-alpine trees can be successfully winterized at temps as warm as 50 or maybe occasional highs of 55F. But if held at these higher temps, they will begin growing as soon as their requirements for chill hours gas been met. This can be weeks before it is safe to put them outside. Once they start growing, they need light at least as intense as half sun.

I always find it better to store trees colder, at less than 40 F and keep them dormant until it's safe to go outside.

 

[Will.power49]

For ones to better understand your location. If you could fill out your location. Would be great.

Where had you wintered these trees prior to offering lights? The temps found in that location if sheltered in?

My forsythia has flower buds setting...its ahead of most as its still working to acclimate to my climate coming from Florida. But they all reside in a controlled cold greenhouse. I've not turned my lights on to encourage them to wake. I try and keep them slow to

Prior to the location I am at now I used a Florida and had maybe 3 small trees stored over winter twice . New location is a house I bought. Basement temps hover around 50F so far over the winter. The basement has zero sunlight of any kind and a few light bulbs. So I figured they will need some kind of supplemental light source. So I got a 60w Plant bulb from the hardware store and put my trees under it. Plugged into a time on 12/12 from just before Thanksgiving to about 2 weeks ago when I changed it over to the 16/8. Which may have a been a bigger jump then needed. But with it on its way to spring. Maybe this will encourage them to start growing just a bit earlier.

 

[Will.power49]

I have my tropicals on a 16/8 light/dark schedule as well and they put out new leaves most of the winter.

Arent willow and forsythia temperate plants? I know both grow around here so not sure why you have them inside?

You really need to put your location on your profile so we can give you the best advice for your area

I believe they both are. But both trees are well under 8in and in small pots. And central Ohio can get pretty cold. So I figured best to bring them inside.

 

[Paradox]

I believe they both are. But both trees are well under 8in and in small pots. And central Ohio can get pretty cold. So I figured best to bring them inside.

If they are temperate plants then they need dormancy. Bringing them inside doesnt give them that and the size of the tree doesnt negate the need for it.
Eventually they will die if not allowed to have a dormant rest period. It is kind of like depriving a human of sleep, just on a longer term.
You can provide protection in a shed, unheated garage, a cold frame or just bury the pots up to the rim and let them get covered in snow.
Too late for yours for this year though.

 

[Will.power49]

For my tropicals, I run my lights 18 hours on, 6 hours off. Studies done with pine trees showed this maximized growth. No improvement from longer day length. Definitely less sugars produced for each hour under 18 hours.

For my temperate species. They are in the dark. As long as the temperature is below 40 F or 4 C, there is no need for light.

If one has lights in their cold winter storage, they should be at 10 hours or less to keep day length sensitive trees dormant. Lights are not really necessary if your dormancy area stays below 38 - 40 F.

If your cold dormancy area runs warner than 40 F. Then lights or sunlight is more a necessity. Many non-alpine trees can be successfully winterized at temps as warm as 50 or maybe occasional highs of 55F. But if held at these higher temps, they will begin growing as soon as their requirements for chill hours gas been met. This can be weeks before it is safe to put them outside. Once they start growing, they need light at least as intense as half sun.

I always find it better to store trees colder, at less than 40 F and keep them dormant until it's safe to go outside.

I do have a few other tree species in the same area (pine, cedar, barberries, juniper usual kind stuff) that seem to be doing just fine. I figured as the days outside get longer it should match inside. Yet still remaining cold in a unheated basement to match February weather.

Yesterday I repotted a few smaller trees and they had fresh healthy roots. So I think Its going OK. Hopefully next year I'll be able to make up some cold frames and go that route. As I'm sure being outside is the best way to go for these guys. But I think I'm lucky at the moment. I didn't loose any branches for have a ton of needs drop from my pine .

 

[badatusernames]

For my tropicals, I run my lights 18 hours on, 6 hours off. Studies done with pine trees showed this maximized growth. No improvement from longer day length. Definitely less sugars produced for each hour under 18 hours.

For my temperate species. They are in the dark. As long as the temperature is below 40 F or 4 C, there is no need for light.

What would happen if you were to take your tropicals out early, out of curiosity? I wouldn't want a huge grow room, but seeing how quickly ficus for example can grow, I'm wondering if you could get away with cycling them in and out every month to give your trees a rotation of good light, or if it it would just confuse and kill them when they went from "normal indoor winter" to "grow light" back to "normal indoor winter" when you went to swap trees out

 

[Cadillactaste]

I believe they both are. But both trees are well under 8in and in small pots. And central Ohio can get pretty cold. So I figured best to bring them inside.

As an Ohioan myself...I would like to encourage you to seek a different winter set up next year. As mentioned...not permitting dormancy weakens a tree until they die. Allow them to acclimate and then winter them where they see temps below 40F for next winter.

Shoot... @Soldano666 has forsythia in a cold climate...winters them outside. Maybe his success will help you understand just how hardy a species is. Tagged him...maybe he will join in to mention his wintering care.

 

[atlarsenal]

16 hours daily through the whole winter on all of mine.

 

[Will.power49]

As an Ohioan myself...I would like to encourage you to seek a different winter set up next year. As mentioned...not permitting dormancy weakens a tree until they die. Allow them to acclimate and then winter them where they see temps below 40F for next winter.

Shoot... @Soldano666 has forsythia in a cold climate...winters them outside. Maybe his success will help you understand just how hardy a species is. Tagged him...maybe he will join in to mention his wintering care.

I appreciate the input greatly. Being a new house winter snuck up on me and so I made do. Cold Frames will happen next year.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

What would happen if you were to take your tropicals out early, out of curiosity? I wouldn't want a huge grow room, but seeing how quickly ficus for example can grow, I'm wondering if you could get away with cycling them in and out every month to give your trees a rotation of good light, or if it it would just confuse and kill them when they went from "normal indoor winter" to "grow light" back to "normal indoor winter" when you went to swap trees out

Not sure I understand the question. I do not put tropicals in my cold well house, even though it stays above freezing, it is too cold for Ficus. The well house is for temperate trees that require dormancy. Ficus do not require dormancy.

In the warmth of the house, moving a Ficus from under lights to a windowsill and back should not be an issue. You might get some leaf drop if there is a cold draught coming off the glass of the window. Most windowsills are quite a bit colder due to the outside cold, chilling the glass of the window pane, the windowpane then chills air inside the house, this cold air falls onto the windowsill. On a cold day, the windowsill can be 20 degrees colder than the air in the room. A ficus will drop leaves if there is a sudden temperature change. I recommend you put your ficus under lights and just leave it there for the winter. Don't move it outdoors until danger of frost has passed.


As to wintering your temperate deciduous trees in a 50 F basement. You are doing the right thing in terms of having light. But I would try to keep them dormant as long as possible. Your indoor light is never as intense as outdoor sun, so any growth that occurs indoors will be weak compared to growth that occurs outdoors. Later in the summer you will likely end up pruning away any growth that happened indoors, so keep your day length at 10 hours until AFTER your trees start to wake up. The short day length will help keep them dormant. They will eventually wake up, but key is to keep them dormant as long as is possible.

After new growth appears, then increase the day length to 18 hours. If you are lucky they won't wake up more than a week or two early before it is safe to go outside.

While 50 F (10 C) is a bit warm to winter north temperate trees, it can work fine for species like Chinese elm, Crape Myrtle, Japanese black pine, and quite a few others. On the other hand, 50F (10 C) is too warm to winter Japanese white pine, mugo pine, and many of the conifers, spruce also will need colder than 50 F to successfully winter.

You did not mention which species you have in your 50 F basement.

Depending on which species you are raising, next year you may want to make better arrangements. Your basement is good enough for some, but not for "all".

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I winter the majority of my trees outside, simply set on the ground. Right now it is zero, and we have dipped as low as -9 F ( -23 C ) so far this winter. My trees are perfectly happy buried in the snow. Most of these are in plastic pots.

In my well house, even though it is -9 F, has not gotten colder than +32 F. In the well house I keep trees that can not take Chicago winter cold. Also in the well house I have trees in expensive pots. I protect the pots from freezing solid if possible. That way the pots don't get broken by the water in the soil expanding. Generally the well house stays 33 F to 40 F. (roughly 0C to 4C). Bald cypress and Ginkgo, satsuki azalea, and many other more "southern" species are in the well house.

My tropicals, such as Ficus and kumquat, are scattered around the house, some under lights with the orchids, some are near windows.

 

[badatusernames]

Not sure I understand the question. I do not put tropicals in my cold well house, even though it stays above freezing, it is too cold for Ficus. The well house is for temperate trees that require dormancy. Ficus do not require dormancy.

In the warmth of the house, moving a Ficus from under lights to a windowsill and back should not be an issue. You might get some leaf drop if there is a cold draught coming off the glass of the window. Most windowsills are quite a bit colder due to the outside cold, chilling the glass of the window pane, the windowpane then chills air inside the house, this cold air falls onto the windowsill. On a cold day, the windowsill can be 20 degrees colder than the air in the room. A ficus will drop leaves if there is a sudden temperature change. I recommend you put your ficus under lights and just leave it there for the winter. Don't move it outdoors until danger of frost has passed.


As to wintering your temperate deciduous trees in a 50 F basement. You are doing the right thing in terms of having light. But I would try to keep them dormant as long as possible. Your indoor light is never as intense as outdoor sun, so any growth that occurs indoors will be weak compared to growth that occurs outdoors. Later in the summer you will likely end up pruning away any growth that happened indoors, so keep your day length at 10 hours until AFTER your trees start to wake up. The short day length will help keep them dormant. They will eventually wake up, but key is to keep them dormant as long as is possible.

After new growth appears, then increase the day length to 18 hours. If you are lucky they won't wake up more than a week or two early before it is safe to go outside.

While 50 F (10 C) is a bit warm to winter north temperate trees, it can work fine for species like Chinese elm, Crape Myrtle, Japanese black pine, and quite a few others. On the other hand, 50F (10 C) is too warm to winter Japanese white pine, mugo pine, and many of the conifers, spruce also will need colder than 50 F to successfully winter.

You did not mention which species you have in your 50 F basement.

Depending on which species you are raising, next year you may want to make better arrangements. Your basement is good enough for some, but not for "all".

thanks - the bit about the ficus being able to move back and forth while indoors is what i was looking for! i figured, but thought i’d check.