Beech collecting today

[WNC Bonsai]

With the temps forecast to hit 75 today and the rain clearing out I decided to dig out my collecting permit and head for the mountains. I ended up at anout 4500’ on the NC-TENN only cliffs I could get to were off limits until next August while the Peregrine falcons nest up there so I had bushwhack looknig for anything interesting among the rhododenron thickets and birch. Finally I came upon a stand of beech trees with small trees scattered in amongst them. This what oerfect since my permit limits me ot trees in the 2-6’ size range. After spotting several candidates I got out the reciprocating saw and went to work. I came out of the woods with three, one of which is about 2” diameter and the rest smaller. Once they have recovered in a couple years a d gained a little girth, I plan to pot them up as a group. Right now two are in colanders and the third is in an old mica pot I’ve had since about 1976. Imused a mix of equal parts pumice and permatil then tossed in another part pine bark. I also ordered some rhizotonic and will give it a try on these guys. This is my first attempt at transplanting beech so I don’t know what to expect.

 

[Melospiza]

Good luck. I have heard American beeches are quite unlike European and Japanese species in terms of tolerance of root disturbance. Looking forward to seeing how it goes!

 

[Tieball]

Nice catch. I like the looks of the twin trunk. Will be interesting to see your development work....which should take a few years. I have a few wild collected Beech trees....the trees seem to take forever to grow thickness. So....my thoughts are just letting them be thinner, slender....elegant and not complicated.

 

[Zach Smith]

American beech is easy to collect and frustrating to train as bonsai. You get one round of growth per year. One. As you might expect, this isn't conducive to active training during the growing season. The shoots will extend an inch or three, then harden off. That's the growing season. American beech is a beautiful species. You just have to understand the characteristics.

 

[Giga]

American beech is easy to collect and frustrating to train as bonsai. You get one round of growth per year. One. As you might expect, this isn't conducive to active training during the growing season. The shoots will extend an inch or three, then harden off. That's the growing season. American beech is a beautiful species. You just have to understand the characteristics.

Rubish, I have 7 american beech from massive monsters to small like this and I've got up to 3 flushes on these. They work very well as bonsai and they like water retentive soul mix, so be mindful of that. Beech in general have unique charateristics but once you find the timeing in your area you can get two flushes of growth. Been getting two flushes every year for the last 5 years. They are super Ez to collect as long as you collect with branches and buds on the tree. I would have cut down to the lowest viable branch but at this point I'd leave it alone, maybe trim the top most small branches back.

 

[Zach Smith]

Rubish, I have 7 american beech from massive monsters to small like this and I've got up to 3 flushes on these. They work very well as bonsai and they like water retentive soul mix, so be mindful of that. Beech in general have unique charateristics but once you find the timeing in your area you can get two flushes of growth. Been getting two flushes every year for the last 5 years. They are super Ez to collect as long as you collect with branches and buds on the tree. I would have cut down to the lowest viable branch but at this point I'd leave it alone, maybe trim the top most small branches back.

I'm only relating my own experience from the past 30 years. If you can get three flushes, that's awesome. I have found that down here getting two is iffy at best. You probably have better luck being farther north. Not that all that isn't rubish too.

 

[Giga]

I'm only relating my own experience from the past 30 years. If you can get three flushes, that's awesome. I have found that down here getting two is iffy at best. You probably have better luck being farther north. Not that all that isn't rubish too.

I realize rubish was to harsh, I apologize for that, but even in your area you should get more then one flush, you where just pretty adamant about one and only one

 

[Zach Smith]

I realize rubish was to harsh, I apologize for that, but even in your area you should get more then one flush, you where just pretty adamant about one and only one

No sweat. Down here I get one good flush and one (if I'm lucky) weak one. That's been my experience. Probably operator error, as they say.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Rubish, I have 7 american beech from massive monsters to small like this and I've got up to 3 flushes on these. They work very well as bonsai and they like water retentive soul mix, so be mindful of that. Beech in general have unique charateristics but once you find the timeing in your area you can get two flushes of growth. Been getting two flushes every year for the last 5 years. They are super Ez to collect as long as you collect with branches and buds on the tree. I would have cut down to the lowest viable branch but at this point I'd leave it alone, maybe trim the top most small branches back.

I used about 1/3 pine bark in the potting mix along with the pumice and penetril which should give them some water retention. I also bought some rhizotonic to see if that helps the root development as some have suggested. Unfortunately the USFS collection permits don’t allow collecting anything bigger than 6’ tall so unless I stumble upon some tree with a broken out crown or growing out of a rock crevice these little sticks are it. However for a group planting they’ll do. I need to get my daughter and grandkids into bonsai now so these guys will have a home when I pack it in for the big sleep.

 

[rockm]

No sweat. Down here I get one good flush and one (if I'm lucky) weak one. That's been my experience. Probably operator error, as they say.

I grew a pretty good American beech for 20 years. Found that multiple flushes were not all that common. If you can get em' great, but don't expect them. I would get spotty backbudding with mine and the leaves never reduced to my liking. It developed into a nice bonsai after 15 years or so, though. I got rid of it a few years ago in favor of more vigorous species, though.

BTW, nothing Zach says is rubbish. He definitely knows what he's talking about and can get just about anything in the S.E. out of the ground and thriving. He's been collecting U.S. southern trees for a very long time.

 

[rockm]

I used about 1/3 pine bark in the potting mix along with the pumice and penetril which should give them some water retention. I also bought some rhizotonic to see if that helps the root development as some have suggested. Unfortunately the USFS collection permits don’t allow collecting anything bigger than 6’ tall so unless I stumble upon some tree with a broken out crown or growing out of a rock crevice these little sticks are it. However for a group planting they’ll do. I need to get my daughter and grandkids into bonsai now so these guys will have a home when I pack it in for the big sleep.

Would be interesting to here how you came by the USFS permit.

 

[Waldo Street Pottery]

I too would never refer to ZS knowledge as "rubbish", this man has the experience to back his words.

My experience with American Beech is that larger specimens are better for a more convincing image. I have had 2 Beeches for about 5 years and have had success with 2 flushes per year using the method described on Harry Harrington's Bonsai4me website under the species guide.

 

[Giga]

I too would never refer to ZS knowledge as "rubbish", this man has the experience to back his words.

My experience with American Beech is that larger specimens are better for a more convincing image. I have had 2 Beeches for about 5 years and have had success with 2 flushes per year using the method described on Harry Harrington's Bonsai4me website under the species guide.

True but I stand bye getting more then one flush of growth, Even Ryan Niel says this is possible with beech and it's natives if your treat them right. get them with an energy positive state

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

True but I stand bye getting more then one flush of growth, Even Ryan Niel says this is possible with beech and it's natives if your treat them right. get them with an energy positive state

@Giga - please share your timing for when you cut back to get the second and 3rd flushes. I have American beech, and I too only see one flush a year. I have heard that there is a timing issue for pruning to force a second flush, but I never caught the right time. I prune - and will over the summer have buds form, but no flush of growth until the following spring.

So please tell us what you look for, how many leaves do you allow a branch to extend before pruning? Have the leaves hardened off? What do we look for for the ''right timing'' to get a second flush.

Not trying to bust your chops, just want to know what you use to time your pruning.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Would be interesting to here how you came by the USFS permit.

You have to go to the district ranger office for the area you want to collect trees. Ask for a Forest Products Removal Permit to collect and translpant trees. It will cost you $2 per tree with a 10 tree minimum. It is good for 6 months. You are limited to 2-6’ trees of any species. You cannot collect within developed areas such as campgrounds, along roads, within 50’ of trails and seasonal streams, and 100’ of continually flowing streams. That’s all there is to it.

 

[Giga]

@Giga - please share your timing for when you cut back to get the second and 3rd flushes. I have American beech, and I too only see one flush a year. I have heard that there is a timing issue for pruning to force a second flush, but I never caught the right time. I prune - and will over the summer have buds form, but no flush of growth until the following spring.

So please tell us what you look for, how many leaves do you allow a branch to extend before pruning? Have the leaves hardened off? What do we look for for the ''right timing'' to get a second flush.

Not trying to bust your chops, just want to know what you use to time your pruning.

Sure thing, you can also find my threads on American beech but I can fill you in on what I do.

First thing is after last frost of the year I prune all dominant buds and branches down to 2ndary and tertiary bud/branches. I also start fertilizing heavily with organics.

Then as buds open I'll pinch the outer canopy tips as they unfurl to keep the siloute and again to push to the inner buds. Then I let things grow all the while fertilizing with organics heavaly.

Once the growth has lignified, you can tell as the new stem is hard and the leaves feel papery. It's about mid may'ish here. I prune back to 1 to 3 buds depending on branch strength and if i want Ramification, taper and branch strength. Next I cut the outer canopy leaves in 1/2 or 1/3 depending again on strength. I'm still strongly fertilizing. I also wire some here

At this point I just wait till I c new growth. Once I c the 2nd flush I stop fertalizing and let thing be till fall when I start fertalizily again. Rinse and repeat

This is only for healthy trees never newly-colected ones. I have even defoliated Beach but this is should never be repeated year after year only once every two or three years and the tree has to be extremely healthy

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thank you, I appreciate this.

I often waited until middle June or July to do the pruning of the first flush of growth. We are probably about 2 -3 weeks apart in when our seasons change, likely I was waiting too long before the pruning back of the first flush of growth.

 

[rockm]

I too would never refer to ZS knowledge as "rubbish", this man has the experience to back his words.

My experience with American Beech is that larger specimens are better for a more convincing image. I have had 2 Beeches for about 5 years and have had success with 2 flushes per year using the method described on Harry Harrington's Bonsai4me website under the species guide.

This is an issue. Harrington is working with a different species--Fagus Sylvatica. American beech --Fagus Grandifolia--isn't as vigorous.

Having grown both, I can say American beech isn't as amenable to bonsai culture as the Euro species. Grandifolia is not as responsive and will weaken over time with the same bonsai treatment. Proceed with aggressive treatment at your tree's risk. What works for five years, or even ten, might not work longer term, especially if you've worked the tree hard enough to get it into a decent bonsai container. I worked mine into a pot that was an inch deep. Did fine in that for a decade, then began to lose branching.

I removed terminal buds in the spring. and trim for silhouette too. Got decent backbudding, up until a point...

 

[BrianBay9]

You have to go to the district ranger office for the area you want to collect trees. Ask for a Forest Products Removal Permit to collect and translpant trees. It will cost you $2 per tree with a 10 tree minimum. It is good for 6 months. You are limited to 2-6’ trees of any species. You cannot collect within developed areas such as campgrounds, along roads, within 50’ of trails and seasonal streams, and 100’ of continually flowing streams. That’s all there is to it.

Every national forest has different rules, applied differently depending on the particular district and ranger. I've had some offices issue me permits and then been stopped by rangers from the same office in the field, contradicting the permit in my hand. Other places are easy to work with. Best advice is to develop a relationship with the folks at the district you're interested in.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Every national forest has different rules, applied differently depending on the particular district and ranger. I've had some offices issue me permits and then been stopped by rangers from the same office in the field, contradicting the permit in my hand. Other places are easy to work with. Best advice is to develop a relationship with the folks at the district you're interested in.

Yes, individual ranger districts can designate areas for collecting and declare others off limits. For example one spot I really want to visit is off limits until August because Peregrine falcons are nesting on the cliffs. However the permitting process is a national USFS program. Each of the forest websites has a page on permits and it is a good idea to look it over and call ahead. In this area these permits are so seldom used that mine was the first one they had done as far as they could remember.