Beech defoliation

[fredman]

I was always of the opinion the European beech are not to be defoliated. Can't even remember where I learnt that. Also never second guessed it. Just took it for gospel (what I learnt) that it has one flush of growth and won't grow another if that is removed.
So to try and get some back budding and ramification, I was in the habit of cutting it back to two nodes soon after the leaves starts extending each year. Looking back now, that never really went well for me (nor the tree) as it basically stood still every year. Not much ramification was built actually. Thinking about it now, that is a silly practice...to say the least. I mean as soon as the tree starts making energy, I almost immediately remove more than half of it. That poor tree spends who knows how long to catch up building energy. TBH (between you and me), i'm actually ashamed to admit for so long I just followed what someone once said, and never really sat down and thought it through for myself....to make it worse, i'm perfectly capable to do just that.

Anyway...imagine my shock and amazement when I saw @Walter Pall post his European beech on facebook. It's filled with beautiful new small leaves after it had a total defoliation. Apart from that it had a hedge prune earlier the year to.
That brings me to my question...am I the only one that lived in the dark all this time?
Does anyone else defoliate their European beech?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have six or seven young beeches. For shits and giggles I partially defoliated half of them. But they haven't produced a second flush of growth. I could have been too late though, I did it roughly a month ago.
Maybe next year I'll try a full defoliation. Just to see what happens.

 

[BobbyLane]

bummer, i opened the thread and half expected to see some results, images and documentation

you can only go by documented results. Harry harrington has a great article on b4m which has obviously worked for him over the years, im sure some of you have seen his beech trees.
same goes for Walter. why not give it a try and show us how it worked/or not worked for you?

 

[BobbyLane]

i would add. for anyone attempting to try any of these methods.

make sure your beech is well established in its pot for a number of years. make sure your beech is healthy with lots of branches and lush foliage. make sure youre feeding and watering well. make sure the beech wasnt repotted in the same season or if it was, it was only slipped potted from pot to another pot without much root work.

Walter's beeches are all very well established and have been growing in bonsai pots for many years.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I have six or seven young beeches. For shits and giggles I partially defoliated half of them. But they haven't produced a second flush of growth. I could have been too late though, I did it roughly a month ago.
Maybe next year I'll try a full defoliation. Just to see what happens.

You should see new leaves at about 3 weeks... Got buds?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Not all beeches are created equal. The european beech, Fagus sylvatica, has been documented to survive, even thrive with carefully timed defoliation. Key may be timing, and having a healthy tree going into the operation. Read Walter's blogs to determine what timing he uses. Read others descriptions, being certain to pay attention to timing.

American beech, Fagus grandifolia, has several well documented cases when defoliation was detrimental. I don't know of any cases where defoliation for F. grandifolia has been documented as a positive reaction. But I am not a "knower of all things beech". It may be just a matter of getting the timing right. I was only able to keep an American beech going for about 5 years. I kept having issues with poor responses to pruning, I never tried defoliation, but at some point, it defoliated itself and was no more. Horticulture for American beech is more demanding than European beech.

Japanese beech, Fagus crenata, has a reputation for being much more exacting in its horticulture requirements than both the European beech and the American Beech. I do not know details, but it has a reputation as to being intolerant of less than ideal conditions.


Given the differences between the 3 species most commonly used for bonsai, and the fact that many blog posters, and authors do not always make it clear which species they are dealing with, it is easy to see how there is contradictory information out there about beech.

 

[ABCarve]

I was always of the opinion the European beech are not to be defoliated. Can't even remember where I learnt that. Also never second guessed it. Just took it for gospel (what I learnt) that it has one flush of growth and won't grow another if that is removed.
So to try and get some back budding and ramification, I was in the habit of cutting it back to two nodes soon after the leaves starts extending each year. Looking back now, that never really went well for me (nor the tree) as it basically stood still every year. Not much ramification was built actually. Thinking about it now, that is a silly practice...to say the least. I mean as soon as the tree starts making energy, I almost immediately remove more than half of it. That poor tree spends who knows how long to catch up building energy. TBH (between you and me), i'm actually ashamed to admit for so long I just followed what someone once said, and never really sat down and thought it through for myself....to make it worse, i'm perfectly capable to do just that.

Anyway...imagine my shock and amazement when I saw @Walter Pall post his European beech on facebook. It's filled with beautiful new small leaves after it had a total defoliation. Apart from that it had a hedge prune earlier the year to.
That brings me to my question...am I the only one that lived in the dark all this time?
Does anyone else defoliate their European beech?

Well…… did you ever try this? Did it work out well? I have a sylvatica that is going to get it this season…..what was your timing?

 

[Paradox]

Well…… did you ever try this? Did it work out well? I have a sylvatica that is going to get it this season…..what was your timing?

Sergio (@MACH5) says he cuts the leaves of his in half in June. Every (most?) leaf gets cut in half. This would be less risky than total defoliation since it leaves half of the "solar panels" on the tree.

He says it seems to promote good back budding

 

[ABCarve]

Sergio (@MACH5) says he cuts the leaves of his in half in June. Every (most?) leaf gets cut in half. This would be less risky than total defoliation since it leaves half of the "solar panels" on the tree.

He says it seems to promote good back budding

Thanks but I’m doing for a different reason. Trying to rid a disease.

 

[Paradox]

Thanks but I’m doing for a different reason. Trying to rid a disease.

Ah, well good luck with that

 

[fredman]

Well…… did you ever try this? Did it work out well? I have a sylvatica that is going to get it this season…..what was your timing?

Yes I defoliated the whole tree as it was extremely healthy. I did it at the beginning of summer. It grew back strong and made some new buds.
This coming spring i'm repotting it so I won't be defoliating....but I will cut back the growth on the top 2/3rds of the tree. I'm leaving the bottom 1/3rd to go wild to fatten up the branches there.