Beech second flush deformed

[JudyB]

My EU beech was doing great up until the second flush of leaves pushed out. I had just done a culling of the first flush to stimulate the inner buds to unfurl last week or so. The new leaves that are pushing out, are deformed, with brown spots, and curling of the leaf. The first flush was very healthy and perfect. What could cause this, and what can I do about it at this point? I have never seen this before, and fear that without this flush of leaves, the tree will weaken. I've been working insane hours the past few days, but will get a pic tomorrow if that would help. Any experience with Beech in particular is welcome, as they have a different growth pattern than most deciduous trees.
Thanks,
Judy

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

My J. Beech does the same thing. Always has on the second flush, but has never been a problem. I always assumed that it was because the pruning stimulated weaker buds to grow that really weren't intended to grow. The new shoots form perfectly normally otherwise, and set buds for the next year that also grow normally.

Here is what mine looks like today, light growth is new, in response to pinching back I did 2-3 weeks ago.

 

[JudyB]

Mine are much worse than that, I'll post a photo tomorrow. It almost looks like insect or fungal damage, although I've seen no evidence of insects, and no other trees are showing any problems at all. I wonder if something got into the closed buds... I just hope I don't get any dieback in the inner portion of the tree, I've been working on inner strength for a few years now.
I would normally start feeding heavily at this point, but I recently read that feeding beech can make leaf problems worse on beech.

I should know better than to start a thread without pictures, but I'm starting to worry.

 

[Vance Wood]

My EU beech was doing great up until the second flush of leaves pushed out. I had just done a culling of the first flush to stimulate the inner buds to unfurl last week or so. The new leaves that are pushing out, are deformed, with brown spots, and curling of the leaf. The first flush was very healthy and perfect. What could cause this, and what can I do about it at this point? I have never seen this before, and fear that without this flush of leaves, the tree will weaken. I've been working insane hours the past few days, but will get a pic tomorrow if that would help. Any experience with Beech in particular is welcome, as they have a different growth pattern than most deciduous trees.
Thanks,
Judy

The problem you have here is not asking for information about the Beech. Not all deciduous trees will tolerate defoliation and Beech is one of them.

 

[JudyB]

Vance, I did not defoliate the tree. If you don't do some pinching of the first growth of leaves on Beech, the inner/weaker buds will not open, leaving you with only outer growth. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but I was only talking about taking some leaves off to allow for the second push of buds. I've actually had this tree for quite a long time, and not had this problem with it before, and am using the same technique as always.
I know there is a theory that there is a specific "square inch" of leaf surface that the tree can support, and that taking some leaves off allows these other buds to fill out that surface amount then.

 

[cmeg1]

My mag sais' to cut large outer leaves in half in July to let sun and air into the inner growth.Hope your tree fairs well Judy.I have purchased a few crenata seedlings to grow out.

 

[JudyB]

So here are a couple of pictures of the leaves, during the weekend while I was working, most of the new growth has turned completely brown, and some has fallen off. I suppose what I need to figure out is how to treat the tree for the remainder of this year. Do I start to feed normally? I want to feed well to help it gain some strength, but don't want to cause it any more stress.

If anyone can identify the possible problem, and how to treat, that'd be great.
Thanks.

 

[coh]

Are the leaves soft/mushy or crispy/dried? Can't tell from the photos. Do you have any photos of leaves earlier in the process, from buds that have just opened?

Chris

 

[JudyB]

Crisp, crunchy. Here is a shot of a new cluster and how they are looking opening. A shot of the trees first flush leaves, you can see that they are fine.

 

[coh]

Looks nasty! I have seen this type of thing on trees and shrubs in the past, but not beech (I don't have any). Not sure what it is. Are pretty much all of the newly opened buds doing this? And are these buds that set last year (or before) or buds that were in the leaf axils of this years new growth? They look like older buds from the photo.

I wonder if climate conditions might have been harsh when these buds were developing...too wet or dry, or cold...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Even the new buds look dead, not good. How are the roots? This has me thinking root rot. I'll have to go back to my photos from '07-08 when my beech had it and see if the symptoms are similar...

 

[JudyB]

I can't imagine how it would have been overwatered, it's in 90% inorganic, and has not been overwatered. It's been pretty dry here, and I've been handwatering almost the whole season so far. I guess I'll have to pull it out of the pot, and take a look at the roots.

 

[Dav4]

Any chance it has salt burn? I know beeches are more sensitive to this then others. I agree with Brian that the condition of the leaves seem to point to a root issue. I hope you figure it out.

Dave

 

[JudyB]

I don't fertilize the beech in the spring, not until leaves are hardened, except a very mild liquid organic fert. Yeah, now I'm worried.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here is a shot from my beech in late summer '06. In too much soil (their roots are very fine), and starting to suffer from root-rot. Bad photo, but it shows the really big leaves, and the weak second flush with holes and brown spots.

By next repotting in '08 only 25% of the roots were left.


If you can, get it out of the pot and have a look; better to eliminate root-rot as the cause now than to learn it's what killed the tree later. Likely, root rot will smell dank and not as earthy; roots will be black and slimy, and no longer circling the edges of the pot.

I repotted mine in March, but in your case, if it's rot, I'd go into all akadama and keep it in the greenhouse for the rest of the year if that's an option. Mist often, water at LONG intervals, and keep all the foliage you can so they can help the tree develop new roots.

Good luck...

 

[JudyB]

not root rot

Ok, so we can rule out root rot, good healthy roots, and lots of them. Didn't repot this year as I did last year, so pretty full of good looking roots. Now what? Yikes, but at least it's not roots...
Ideas on what to do with it?

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Judyb,

Please see the fact sheet at:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...P2cseMSlJWxh4PalGXMUCfQ&bvm=bv.47008514,d.eWU

Sounds like there are a couple leaf spots fungus that attach Beech, they mostly seem non-fatal, but there are a couple that cause branch/twig death, which is bad enough. Sounds like letting things work through, but limiting the nitrogen applied while it is happening is the way forward. I do not have a plan, but perhaps you will find something in the attached that can help. Nice tree, I hope it pulls through!

Regards,
Martin

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Agreed, roots look good, though the soil looks pretty heavy.
Fungal is next...

 

[JudyB]

Brian, can you tell me what you mean by heavy? It's haydite, river rock and a bit of orchid bark and charcoal, with a little sifted turface. Do you mean it should be more open, larger? It has been happy in this soil as far as I can tell. I suppose if this tree would be better in akadama, I could spring for it for this one. I always worry about the mush factor here with all the freeze cycles we have.
So I'll spray a fungicide, is there anything else that I can try? Would greenhousing it for a while help?
And I use bonsai pro on this tree, it's not high nitrogen, so I can probably feed weekly with that, do you think?
Thanks Martin, if you have any other suggestions, I'm open. This is a nice tree and don't want to mess around and loose it.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I guess if its fungal, I'd want it out in the open air, treating it with fungicides until new growth appears healthy, but I'll defer to the Hort experts.

Heavy soil: it looks like small particle size, wet, and heavy. Maybe it's just the photo, and I try to stay out of soil advice, but I do like akadama and larger particle size; for me, nothing smaller than 1/8". And fwiw, I've never had akadama turn to mush. The top might break down a little if you're aerating it, but at repotting time, it always has plenty of structure in the root mass.