Beginner Juniper styling advice

[practicing]

Hi all,

I caught the bonsai bug about a year ago, but I've mostly spent the past year working on keeping trees alive and playing around with getting cuttings to root. Now I'd like to start getting my hands dirty with pruning and styling practice. As a first attempt/victim, I bought this juniper, but before I started hacking away, I wanted to get some advice from folks here to try to minimize errors. At this point, all that I've done is cut away the top of the nursery pot and remove any brown/dead needles (along with one branch that sadly broke in transit).


With that done, I've started to be able to see a bit of the trunk if I lift the branches away, and I'm pretty excited about how it looks. My general question is, what next?

More specifically, am I right in thinking I can remove the weak branches that are at the very bottom of the tree (the red circles)? Then, should I start trimming back the really long branches, or leave those?



Finally, the big question is what sort of styles/shapes should I be considering. My initial thought, was to do a sort of twin-trunk design (side and top views):



But I could also see this trunk turning into a (much) smaller version of this tree. With a bit more bending, I imagine it might also be possible to do a bit more of a standard informal upright, but since the two main branches are both about the same size, I think it'd be hard to use one as a first branch, but still keep the scale?

If it helps, here is another angle on the trunk:


Thanks for your help. As you can see, I'm a bit lost. (I'm also not sure if I did the image embedding thing right, but they're here too.)

 

[sorce]

Welcome Practicing.
May I call you Steve?

I like to sit and clean all the brown out, remove crotch branches, and look around for general nastiness.

Don't know bout Cuttin em in Virginia,
But it looks healthy.

Don't cut them low lil branches off yet!

Welcome to Crazy!
Sorce

 

[practicing]

Thanks, Sorce. I'll leave those branches, but since I'm still learning, can you briefly explain why? I'll also go through and take out any crotch branches (which I understand are branches coming from the insides of curves?)

Then I still need to figure out how to make it less shrub like, and more tree like.

 

[MaverickLancer]

Some quick info since I don't have much time at the moment:
- Crotch branches are those growing between two branches (in the V).
- Before styling, be sure to clean any brown or dying foliage.
- You can leave the lower branches as sacrifice branches. These will help thicken up the trunk. Remove only when you have desired trunk thickness.
- If you see three or more branches coming from the same node, prune one. If you let this sit, it will turn into a large unsightly knuckle. The one you prune will depend on relative branch strength and best placement.
- When you have everything thinned, then you can proceed with styling.
- Never prune a juniper back to bare wood on a branch. It will die back.
- I'd suggest brushing back the soil level until you start finding the nebari. Do not attempt to repot right now.
- Locate a front and primary trunk line for your tree. Pick a trunk line and front that has the best movment and results in an apex that bows slightly towards the viewer.

Post pictures after you've cleaned the tree. Take at least one picture looking directly at the front.

Helpful links
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/AT Styling Juniper Bonsai Branches Thinning Out.html
http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/choose-your-own-adeventure.19975/

 

[M. Frary]

Given what can be seen in the pictures,I would probably cut off trunk B and keep trunk A.
Will be able to tell better once it's been cleaned up.

 

[practicing]

Thanks, MaverickLancer, that was incredibly helpful. I spent some more time cleaning out the dead stuff today, and then went hunting for crotch branches. I found a few towards the ends of branches, but then looked further in and think I found one at the core of the tree:

Now I'm agonizing over which one should go. In addition, am I right that Z can be cut because it is a downward growing branch?

Then, to answer your question about a picture of the front/trunk, I'm still finding it difficult to take a great picture because of all the branches, but I am currently leaning toward this:


The difficulty I'm having is imagining what the tree will look like around/above the somewhat swirly mess of branches that involves the crotch branch pictured above. I also wonder if I should take better advantage of the first really thick branch, with a view like this:

This option has fewer really low branches, so I think it would need to be a somewhat taller tree than the first front. (Note that the first branch pointing left is dead.)

Finally, I did dig down a bit to look for the nebari. I found two good roots and one crossing root, all of decent size, but nothing great/terrible (in my beginner opinion).

Thanks again for all of the wonderful help, and apologies for being so ignorant about this all. You guys are awesome.

 

[sorce]

Your time, and tree, will fare better looking(no need for agonizing) at this tree for a long time.

Be hesitant, your tree is gaining strength as you do.

Must see.

You don't want to cut any main trunks right now anyway. Maybe one, but until you are sure, your tree gains strength!

Take a look at that video. And using the info, come up with a plan and share it.

I bet you do well!

Sorce

Ps no Steve?

 

[sorce]

Oh, and that downward growing branch could be your main feature.

When we refer to removing downward growth, we speak of little green hanging below pad lines.

That branch could Be a focal point!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

but since I'm still learning, can you briefly explain why

Low branches.

Used to fatten trunk.

Keep trunk from dying down from stuff cut above.

May be used in final design, especially if you find nothing good up top.

Still small and bendable.
Some stuff gets out of proportion.
Branch/trunk
You can grow these to correct proportions.

Sorce

 

[practicing]

Sorce,
Your advice continues to be fantastic. I'm still only about a half hour into the video, but it looks really I promising. I do wish he had said more about what he was doing for the first 20 minutes beyond "opening up the tree," since that's the stage I'm at, but I'm still looking forward to seeing more.

For now, I've spent more time studying the trunk, and I think I've settled on a front:


And then, here is my first attempt at drawing out a plan:


Basically, I would bring the big right branch down a bit into a semi-cascade, and try to bring the left branch a bit more upright to lead to an apex. (My inspiration was this picture and this picture.) Am I even close to on the right track?

 

[M. Frary]

That branch poking out at the camera should go if this is to be thrown front. It's almost like it's poking one in the eye.

 

[practicing]

Yes, I completely agree. I tried to white it out in the drawing above to imagine what that would look like. But I also liked the suggestion of keeping it as a sacrifice branch to help thicken the lower trunk. When I do remove it though, I would hope to also try and make some deadwood extending down the trunk from the wound to add some visual interest.

 

[Vance Wood]

Yes, I completely agree. I tried to white it out in the drawing above to imagine what that would look like. But I also liked the suggestion of keeping it as a sacrifice branch to help thicken the lower trunk. When I do remove it though, I would hope to also try and make some deadwood extending down the trunk from the wound to add some visual interest.

Sacrifice Branches and Junipers are almost mutually exclusive. Junipers, in my experience with their sectored architecture, do not respond so well to the perceived advantage of the ubiquitous escape or sacrifice branch as many would like to believe. The only sacrifice branch that works is all of them together; the flood that floats all boats----of course IMHOP.

 

[practicing]

OK, so I decided to go ahead and take a try at hacking up this tree. However, I'm worried I fell victim to the temptation to clear out the view of the trunk. In any case, this is the result:

I still plan to get rid of the really low branch, and I'm also tempted to jin the branch coming out on the right, for something like this:

In any case, how badly did I mess this up? And more importantly, what should I keep in mind for next time?

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

[Vance Wood]

The next thing you have to do is to shorten the long and leggy growth that is the top of the tree or at least the outside of the tree. This will encourage back budding and bring the growth in closer to the trunk where the proportions you have can be take advantage of. Don't worry if nothing is perfect, it takes time and the only way you learn unfortunately is by observing what happens when you do this or do that and often the mistakes are more important than the successes.

 

[sorce]

Sorry. I missed that one. A quote will reel me in!

I think you've left more foilage than most people do.
Which means your tree should live!

Now is just fingercrossoclock!

I think the virt is good except the right 2 green pads can Probly go.
And the other right one can get in tighter.

Compacting things makes a trunk bigger faster than years growing!
Visually!

Sawgrass has a slew of styled juniper threads you would enjoy.

Sorce

 

[practicing]

Thanks again for the helpful advice everyone. I trimmed some of the longer growth and brought the right hand branch in tighter to try to compact things more. I still don't have a good idea for what to do about the back, but I think I will leave that challenge for after the tree has started growing in again.

I think you've left more foilage than most people do.

Do you mean that I left more foliage than most beginners, or than most experts do too? I felt I took off a lot, but for future projects, I'm curious if I should feel safe taking off even more foliage during the initial styling/pruning?

 

[Vance Wood]

It is always better to ere on the side of keeping too much foliage in the beginning until you learn what works and what kills trees. Ultimately you have to develop a feel for these trees and what you can and can not do with them. The only way you can do that is seek advice of course but that only goes so far. Ultimately you have to break eggs to make an omelet.

 

[M. Frary]

It is always better to ere on the side of keeping too much foliage in the beginning until you learn what works and what kills trees. Ultimately you have to develop a feel for these trees and what you can and can not do with them. The only way you can do that is seek advice of course but that only goes so far. Ultimately you have to break eggs to make an omelet.

Yep. And once it's off you ain't gluing a branch back on.

 

[sorce]

Thanks again for the helpful advice everyone. I trimmed some of the longer growth and brought the right hand branch in tighter to try to compact things more. I still don't have a good idea for what to do about the back, but I think I will leave that challenge for after the tree has started growing in again.


Do you mean that I left more foliage than most beginners, or than most experts do too? I felt I took off a lot, but for future projects, I'm curious if I should feel safe taking off even more foliage during the initial styling/pruning?

More people in your position.
This is an excellent thing!

Ditto to the MI comments!

Sorce