Beginners Mistakes

[Gr8tfuldad]

So as much as I hate to admit it, I think I made some mistakes. Just don’t tell my wife, she’ll never let me live it down So I am hoping you guys can help steer me right.

1) I just received an order of a few JM seedlings 2 year old that are dormant. They are currently wrapped in damp news paper. It has gotten much colder here quicker than I was anticipating (Lows in high 20’s). Should I try and over winter them in a pot in an unheated garage on a heat mat. Should I plant them in the ground on a tile like I was planning and hope for the best (I’m worried the roots will freeze without having time to settle in)? Should I plant them in a pot and put in a heated garage that stays in in the mid 60’s with good light (this is where I overwinter tropical)?
2) I planted quite a few trees this fall. JM, Trident Maples, JBP and Crab Apples. All trees were planted in the ground over tiles. Since it was fall, I was apprehensive to work the roots. I am worried that the rootball will turn into a tangled mess over time. My goal is to use these as sources of air layers as I thicken the trunks. If they develop well, I would eventually like to pot them up. Should I leave them be? Should I dig them up in the spring and spread the roots and remove downwards facing roots?
Any other suggestions that might put me in the right direction is appreciate. Thanks guys and gals
Edit: just to clarify all trees are 3 years or younger.

 

[just.wing.it]

So, the JM's are bare rooted now, in wet paper and the others are in the ground on tiles...?
Did you bare root them too?....because planting a rootball on top of a tile isn't going to have the desired effect as I know it.
In my limited experience in messing with roots in the Fall time, I'd say that yeah, there's a chance of survival, but its slim.

 

[just.wing.it]

Here is my little Acer Rubrum on a tile.
This is one year of tile growth.


The following spring.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

So, the JM's are bare rooted now, in wet paper and the others are in the ground on tiles...?
Did you bare root them too?....because planting a rootball on top of a tile isn't going to have the desired effect as I know it.
In my limited experience in messing with roots in the Fall time, I'd say that yeah, there's a chance of survival, but its slim.

Yes. The couple JM I didn’t yet get into the ground are in wet paper towels, dormant. The other trees were essential slip potted in the ground over a tile. Like I said I was worried about disturbing roots right before winter. My plan was to dig them up in the spring, work the roots and replant.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Here is my little Acer Rubrum on a tile.
This is one year of tile growth.
View attachment 410225View attachment 410226View attachment 410227View attachment 410228

The following spring.
View attachment 410229View attachment 410230View attachment 410231

Wow, that is off to a great start.

 

[just.wing.it]

Yes. The couple JM I didn’t yet get into the ground are in wet paper towels, dormant. The other trees were essential slip potted in the ground over a tile. Like I said I was worried about disturbing roots right before winter. My plan was to dig them up in the spring, work the roots and replant.

I honestly don't know the best bet for you....but I will say that the best time to buy new trees is spring time....it just doesn't leave you with a predicament like this.

Hopefully some others will chime in soon....but I vote for gently potting them up without cutting any roots, put them outside (maybe buried to the lib of the pot, in the ground) and hope for the best. Be sure they don't dry out.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

I honestly don't know the best bet for you....but I will say that the best time to buy new trees is spring time....it just doesn't leave you with a predicament like this.

Hopefully some others will chime in soon....but I vote for gently putting them up without cutting any roots, put them outside (maybe buried to the lib of the pot, in the ground) and hope for the best. Be sure they don't dry out.

You essentially nailed down what I found to be my biggest mistake, buying trees in the fall.

 

[just.wing.it]

You essentially nailed down what I found to be my biggest mistake, buying trees in the fall.

We've all been there.....the itch needs a scratch!

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Anyone else care to share their thoughts? I appreciate it.

 

[Tums]

Don't landscapers wedge trees into the ground straight until it's frozen solid? Do you have a sheltered spot you can just plant them with minimal disturbance? Then you can deal with it in the spring or even in a year.

 

[Dav4]

I've heeled bare rooted trees just like yours right up against my house in GA for a month or two, roots wrapped in wet paper towels and placed in a plastic freezer bag... did fine. I'm pretty sure I successfully kept some similarly wrapped in my garage fridge crisper drawer for a few months, too.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Indeed they do.

Edit: I was replying to Tums

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

I've heeled bare rooted trees just like yours right up against my house in GA for a month or two, roots wrapped in wet paper towels and placed in a plastic freezer bag... did fine. I'm pretty I successfully kept some similarly wrapped in my garage fridge crisper drawer for a few months, too.

That’s reassuring. I’ve always planted trees in the fall myself. Then again, I never really tore the rootball apart though. I am thinking they have essentially just stored in the ground at this point and will pull them up in the spring to sort the roots. I’ve kept a few in pots on a heat mat in the garage to test that method. I also worked the roots on a couple and put them in the ground to test those as well.

 

[sorce]

Once you cut downward growing roots, the side ones outgrow a good design faster.

Better to leave them how they are.

Sorce

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Once you cut downward growing roots, the side ones outgrow a good design faster.

Better to leave them how they are.

Sorce

I am not sure what you mean by outgrow a good design faster.

 

[sorce]

I am not sure what you mean by outgrow a good design faster.

As a community, we tend to understand smaller branches make the trunk look bigger, but we tend to not consider this as greatly with root proportions.
It is because we crave a good large base so much and trees tend to naturally outgrow
"miniature" proportions rather quickly.

What's this?

I was asking everybody to think 'why is Walter doing this?' There is a good reason. A tree that looks like a typical bonsai would look very odd in this setting. Because trees in the wild are not idealized like our bonsai. Life is hard even for trees and it shows on them in the untouched wild...

www.bonsainut.com

That thread made me see it well.

I've been on a kick trying to bring more attention to this as of late. I may come up with a thread with more text on it, but I forgot where it is.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Post in thread 'Sorting Out Uneven Root Plane' https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/sorting-out-uneven-root-plane.52866/post-914457

That's the other thread but there isn't really any good information on solutions, just trying to explain why this thing matters so much and why it is so well hidden from regular "view", like, soul vision not eye vision.

Simple solution is airlayers.

Knowing the problem exists should lead to more solutions.
There is a bunch of fixes to problems that already exist, grafting, etc...

I'd be aiming to prevent it.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

I would just heel them in if you are unsure. Either in a pot that is kept relatively frost-free, or planted deep in the garden. Then in early spring, as soon as you feel winter is ending & trees around you are indicating, yes it is, make it a weekend full of digging, trimming and planting. Trimming roots too much now will leave them vulnerable to both drying out in cold dry winds as well as blowing over, which would mean the roots get messed up again.

Keep them stored with the roots in temporary soil. Work them in spring. All of them will live.

 

[Shibui]

@leatherback has just beaten me to it. Most trees will sit happily with the roots covered with something damp right through to spring. One of the others mentioned this is known as 'heeling in'. I don't have to worry about real cold here but trees store for many months just with roots buried in soil or damp sand either in the garden or in a pot. Yours should also store through winter in a spot you would keep any other similar maple. I would be wary of keeping these warm. Waking them early would cause no end of problems.
At the appropriate time in spring do the full root prune and whatever other magical techniques you want to try.
The others you already have in the garden can be dug in spring and root pruned and placed properly. Most deciduous will cope just fine with annual root pruning, especially when they are young and vigorous. I dig all field grown tridents (several hundred each year) every winter to root prune and replant. Regular root pruning gives me much better root system and does not seem to slow development of the trunk.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Thank you both for taking the time and clearing that up. I assumed it was better to overwinter them in the ground. For the ones I potted in the unheated garage I am interested to see if the heat mat will keep them from freezing solid. It will be an interesting test to see how they all respond. It turns out they weren’t barefooted after all. Once I opened the package I was surprised to see they had a rootball. Does anyone know what the substance is that they put on it? I was thinking maybe a desiccant?