Bending JBP

Drjd

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Is there any possibility of bending this trunk with raffia on this Japanese black pine so it is not so straight? Or is this just a terrible idea?
 

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leatherback

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Not easy to see how old it is. GEnerally this should not be an issue. Make sure you wrap tight with wet raffia, consider adding a layer of tape. Then heavy copper wire, and bend the trunk. COnsider adding a pully wire to keep tight bends in place.

THis process is a lot easier with 2 persons.
 

Haines' Trees

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If you wanted to add some movement, something you could do would be lop off the the top half of the tree and bend that middle branch up to create a new apex, something like this.
34BEAC7E-477F-49C9-867E-242EE8CC64FE.jpegThe red line represents where the cut would be made, then you could bend that branch upward to whatever angle you like. Make sure the tree is in good health if you plan to do this. The picture has a lot of shadow so it’s tough to tell by coloration. Bending the trunk works too, but it would definitely require some muscle and a long time under some wire, maybe even having to un wire then re wire to prevent it from biting into the bark.
 

Drjd

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Excellent thank you. Would a bend of that magnitude destroy the bark?
 

Haines' Trees

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Not necessarily. You can wire the tree well and should be able to get away without causing any real or lasting damage. If you sort of butcher the wiring job, then you’ll probably strip off a lot of bark in the process. It sort of depends on how confident/experienced you are with wiring a heavy section like that. Once you have the wire on, keep an eye on it. Every now and again take a close look and see if there are signs of wiring biting. You’ll be able to see if there are; the bark will be growing around it. If that happens, remove the wire and try again.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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This is your grafted corkbark JBP, right? If so, I would again recommend not doing any more work on it until the fall. Most of the suggestions will severely compromise this already weakened tree. It is possible you’re getting advice from people who don’t know the history or have not worked with corkers.
 

Drjd

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This is your grafted corkbark JBP, right? If so, I would again recommend not doing any more work on it until the fall. Most of the suggestions will severely compromise this already weakened tree. It is possible you’re getting advice from people who don’t know the history or have not worked with corkers.
Your definitely right Brian, nothing I can do to this tree for quiet some time! I just have it in the very back of my collection and every so often I think about what I will do with it one day lol. I have been using raffia and heavy wire to bend large branches on my shimpaku juniper and I just wondered if bending the entire trunk was even something possible for a tree this old.
By the way It’s funny you mentioned it’s grafted cause I was not aware of that when I bought it but that’s what would make sense given the weird inverse taper with smoother wood at the bottom. The tree is a mess so I’m just gonna keep this tree as an experiment and save up for a nice JBP.
 

Paradox

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Your definitely right Brian, nothing I can do to this tree for quiet some time! I just have it in the very back of my collection and every so often I think about what I will do with it one day lol.

I agree with Brian. This tree is VERY weak and should get nothing but fertilizer, water and sun until it has ALOT more foliage.
It simply can not handle more than that at this point.
You need to get it healthy before you should be thinking about what you can do with it.
Dead trees don't make bonsai
 

leatherback

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It is possible you’re getting advice from people who don’t know the history or have not worked with corkers.
Indeed, did not see this as a corkbark tree, nor do I know the history of this one. I based my response on the info given, it being a black pine.
 

Drjd

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I agree with Brian. This tree is VERY weak and should get nothing but fertilizer, water and sun until it has ALOT more foliage.
It simply can not handle more than that at this point.
You need to get it healthy before you should be thinking about what you can do with it.
Dead trees don't make bonsai
Indeed, did not see this as a corkbark tree, nor do I know the history of this one. I based my response on the info given, it being a black pine.
I didn’t go into the long history because I won’t be doing anything to this tree until it has regained its strength. I am just planing what options this tree will have in the distant future. I bought the tree from a reputable bonsai place but I question it being a cork bark now. I appreciate all the suggestions and when it is finally time to do something I now have some more options. Thank you all!
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I don't know if it has been mentioned, but try to keep pressure away from the graft union at all times. That's where they snap, and it's hard to heal.
I got a nice reminder yesterday on some chestnut.
 

leatherback

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I don't know if it has been mentioned, but try to keep pressure away from the graft union at all times. That's where they snap, and it's hard to heal.
I got a nice reminder yesterday on some chestnut.
like the recommendation. not your personal reminder ;)
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Thankfully I heard the crack in time @leatherback . Some cut paste will do, less than a millimeter of tearing.
Never used the stuff before, so it took me a couple tries before I found out it's best wet your hands before applying cut paste. Otherwise it sticks to the fingers.
 

hemi71cuda

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I see two paths for this project, if it were mine. I will detail below but will first say that my knowledge on corkers is a combination of being friends with a local club member who has been growing and propagating cork bark pines for 30ish years and what I’ve seen Ryan do on Mirai cork bark streams.

Both paths begin the same way, as you know:
1. give this tree as much love as possible for (IMHO) at least two years. Fertilizer, sunshine, protection from below freezing, and PROPER moisture/O2 levels. Your foliage and branching is sparse, it needs to build strength. I would also immediately remove all the wire that’s on it. It’s terribly applied and likely ineffective to boot. It also looks like any bark that was developing on the trunk in the middle of the tree was broken off(during wiring??). Not good.

Now, let’s say the tree is strong and ready for an operation, I would go one of two routes:

2a. Watch the Mirai videos on trunk bending(wedge cuts) and the cork bark ones. Get comfortable with the techniques and materials for executing a wedge cut bend and also wire application, bending and bark preservation for corks. Then decide where you want to create changes of direction in the trunk and execute. In my mind you’re not gonna get crisp movement in the trunk with raffia and wire, even if you broke all the cork bark off to do it, which you probably would. Id be afraid you’ll end up with soft curves.
2b: If you want to go the cautious route, resign yourself to this being a 10-15 year project, chop the trunk above your second branch and basically develop this tree via clip and grow. Very minimal wire use, if you need it, be proactive and use it on young branches before the cork develops. My friend very rarely if ever uses wire on corks because his experience is that messing with the branches at all only increases the likelihood of them dying, which tends to happen.
Bonus: if you chop the top, break off and save any bark wings, you can glue them on to hide/disguise the trunk chop, future cuts, pieces you break off accidentally, the graft union, etc.
 

leatherback

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Thankfully I heard the crack in time @leatherback . Some cut paste will do, less than a millimeter of tearing.
Never used the stuff before, so it took me a couple tries before I found out it's best wet your hands before applying cut paste. Otherwise it sticks to the fingers.
And in cold condition, roll it and kneed it a bit to soften up.
 

Drjd

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I don't know if it has been mentioned, but try to keep pressure away from the graft union at all times. That's where they snap, and it's hard to heal.
I got a nice reminder yesterday on some chestnut.
Thanks for the heads up! That makes sense, but I would not have taken that into consideration.

I see two paths for this project, if it were mine. I will detail below but will first say that my knowledge on corkers is a combination of being friends with a local club member who has been growing and propagating cork bark pines for 30ish years and what I’ve seen Ryan do on Mirai cork bark streams.

Both paths begin the same way, as you know:
1. give this tree as much love as possible for (IMHO) at least two years. Fertilizer, sunshine, protection from below freezing, and PROPER moisture/O2 levels. Your foliage and branching is sparse, it needs to build strength. I would also immediately remove all the wire that’s on it. It’s terribly applied and likely ineffective to boot. It also looks like any bark that was developing on the trunk in the middle of the tree was broken off(during wiring??). Not good.

Now, let’s say the tree is strong and ready for an operation, I would go one of two routes:

2a. Watch the Mirai videos on trunk bending(wedge cuts) and the cork bark ones. Get comfortable with the techniques and materials for executing a wedge cut bend and also wire application, bending and bark preservation for corks. Then decide where you want to create changes of direction in the trunk and execute. In my mind you’re not gonna get crisp movement in the trunk with raffia and wire, even if you broke all the cork bark off to do it, which you probably would. Id be afraid you’ll end up with soft curves.
2b: If you want to go the cautious route, resign yourself to this being a 10-15 year project, chop the trunk above your second branch and basically develop this tree via clip and grow. Very minimal wire use, if you need it, be proactive and use it on young branches before the cork develops. My friend very rarely if ever uses wire on corks because his experience is that messing with the branches at all only increases the likelihood of them dying, which tends to happen.
Bonus: if you chop the top, break off and save any bark wings, you can glue them on to hide/disguise the trunk chop, future cuts, pieces you break off accidentally, the graft union, etc.
Thank you for the great information! You are correct the wiring is atrocious. I have taken formal in person classes since then, and my work is being performed at a much higher level now. I am a member of Mirai now and I am working through all the archived videos, but of course as a beginner I am making sure I start at the basic videos and work forward. I am watching hours a day so I will likely get the chance to watch the cork bark videos soon. Since I will be leaving this tree alone for about 2 years I have plenty of time haha. I do plan on removing the wire soon (very very carefully of course). I have seen Ryan perform wedge cuts on very large branches, so I will continue to study his technique. I may not bend this tree given the risks of trying to create any bends.

This may be a bad question as most people seem to think cutting above the second branch is best, but does this not make the taper issue worse since above the second branch is where the taper starts? Would allowing the tree to recover and wait for back budding along the barren portion now work well?

Last question, would using the tourniquet method at the level where the graft meets the cork bark an option for improving the nebari and eventually removing evidence of the graft? I like this technique, but I have only applied it to tropicals and never used it on a pine. Of course i'm referring to doing this 2 years from now when the tree has recovered.
 
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