Bending Pines

[A Random User]

Just thought I would post some pics of one of my small pines...
It's a JBP, it needs a lot of work still, but thought some might find it
useful.
This had a very straight trunk, I literally bent it with my hands...
folding it over on itself, and just fastened it with an old piece of wire.
Nothing fancy... no fascinating technique... no need for a youtube video...
Pines are pretty limber, especially when young. The trunk size is an inch
and a half. Not worried about a wire scar... in fact if one looks close you will
see individual pieces of wire wrapped around the trunk purposely inducing
wire scaring to rapidly increase trunk size.

So, don't be afraid to bend them...
Oh, also... before someone posts let's see if it survives... I did this over a
year ago. Thanks... The End.

 

[A Random User]

I'm thinking it might end up something more like the second pic...

I don't like where how the bottom of the foliage is on the left
side of the tree, lines up with the bend in the trunk. Kinda
forms a straight line across the tree, and makes the foliage
feel like it is just plopped on top, with no interaction with
the trunk...

 

[Poink88]

That's some crazy bending. Not sure if it appeals to me though but lesson learned is that pine that size can be bent that drastically with minimal "support".

Curious about your wire bands, are those just to make sure the branch doesn't splinter and break? When are you planning on removing them? Won't winding a spiral wire (maybe narrower spacing) work as well?

Thanks for sharing.

 

[A Random User]

That's some crazy bending. Not sure if it appeals to me though but lesson learned is that pine that size can be bent that drastically with minimal "support".

Curious about your wire bands, are those just to make sure the branch doesn't splinter and break? When are you planning on removing them? Won't winding a spiral wire (maybe narrower spacing) work as well?

Thanks for sharing.

I wanted a very small shohin with this tree, this is why I chose to bring
the foliage back in on itself tight and compact. The tree when finished
will end up in a 4-6 inch pot, which a 2-3 inch trunk.

No, the wire bands are not for splintering or breaking...

The wire bands serve one purpose only, that is to scar the trunk and
force it to thicken up in a very short time. The wire is purposely wrapped
extremely tight and actually cuts into the bark, forcing the bark to try
and heal itself by swelling up... If left on, it will actually grow right over
the top of it and bury the wire within itself. The heavy bark of a pine
that will come later, will hide the scars.

 

[Adair M]

The cut in wire does get covered over by the tree, and it does bark over, but the scarring will be evident. It produces an artificial look to the bark pattern. It often results in creating reverse taper. Virtually all the white pines grafted onto black pine stock had the black pine portion wired this way.

Personally, I don't care much for the technique. But then maybe that's because I haven't seen a really good one.

The JWP grafted onto JBP are produced by the thousands in Japan. I'm sure the "good" ones never leave Japan. They only ship the culls to the USA. So, therefore, all the ones we see are the ones that no one would want in Japan.

All that said, I'm sure you're learning something from the experiment.

 

[nathanbs]

I challenge you on the trunk being 1.5" at the bend. Looks more like 3/4". Additionally the scarring technique is more commonly used on younger more vigorously growing stock and is removed by this point in the game. It should be removed after heavy scarring but before it is swallowed by tree as it will cause deformation such as reverse taper as adair mentioned and cause the tree to be forever weaker than a tree without wire buried in its trunk

 

[A Random User]

I challenge you on the trunk being 1.5" at the bend. Looks more like 3/4". Additionally the scarring technique is more commonly used on younger more vigorously growing stock and is removed by this point in the game. It should be removed after heavy scarring but before it is swallowed by tree as it will cause deformation such as reverse taper as adair mentioned and cause the tree to be forever weaker than a tree without wire buried in its trunk

I will throw a tape measure on it tomorrow, and see... You might be correct that it
might be smaller than an inch and a half right at the bend... Not sure ??? The inch
and a half was an estimate, to give a general size of the trunk, sorry my bad...

As far as the rest of your info, I appreciate you posting it. Those new to this type
of procedure, I am sure will find it very useful, and might not want to do as I am
doing... wouldn't be the first time !!!


Couple of things though...

I have found that doing this on older trees, such as this, actually works
quite well... Because of the exact reason you have stated... The tree is not as
vigorous, and allows one to slowly increase the growth, allowing better control.

Also, trees that are wired to scar the trunk are not wired as I have done...
They are wired as one would normally wire a tree, in a spiral
pattern, which has a tendency to enlarge the trunk in a similar spiral shape,
which when viewed from certain angles, does give an appearance of reverse taper.

My approach, I have found has beneficial properties, that the normal way of doing
it, I personally feel does not....

The first being that I actually take a piece of wire wrap horizontally across
the trunk, twist with pliers until it actually cuts down into the bark, instant scarring...
no waiting for the tree to grow into the wire. So no need for the tree to be extremely
vigorous... I have in fact created a wound, that the tree will need to heal.

Second, I can remove individual bands if a portion of the trunk begins to grow faster
than another. Allowing better control. They are easily moved if need be... as well as
more can be added.

If one removes them as soon as the trunk swells to the top of the wire, and leaves
them off, or moves them to another location, they fill in the scar in a short amount
of time, and one never notices it was there.

For the record, I have moved the wires on this tree, 4 times now...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

It would be interesting if a similar-sized "control" pine was allowed to grow freely next to this one. I suspect the girdling wires intended to thicken the trunk are really slowing it down.

 

[Poink88]

It would be interesting if a similar-sized "control" pine was allowed to grow freely next to this one. I suspect the girdling wires intended to thicken the trunk are really slowing it down.

That is a very good point. I would love to see the result of the side by side comparison (if possible) also.

 

[Vance Wood]

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Just thought I would post some pics of one of my small pines...
It's a JBP, it needs a lot of work still, but thought some might find it
useful.
This had a very straight trunk, I literally bent it with my hands...
folding it over on itself, and just fastened it with an old piece of wire.
Nothing fancy... no fascinating technique... no need for a youtube video...
Pines are pretty limber, especially when young. The trunk size is an inch
and a half. Not worried about a wire scar... in fact if one looks close you will
see individual pieces of wire wrapped around the trunk purposely inducing
wire scaring to rapidly increase trunk size.

So, don't be afraid to bend them...
Oh, also... before someone posts let's see if it survives... I did this over a
year ago. Thanks... The End.

Not all Pine species will take this kind of bending without wrapping in raffia or they will snap.

 

[october]

The cut in wire does get covered over by the tree, and it does bark over, but the scarring will be evident. It produces an artificial look to the bark pattern. It often results in creating reverse taper. Virtually all the white pines grafted onto black pine stock had the black pine portion wired this way.

Personally, I don't care much for the technique. But then maybe that's because I haven't seen a really good one.

The JWP grafted onto JBP are produced by the thousands in Japan. I'm sure the "good" ones never leave Japan. They only ship the culls to the USA. So, therefore, all the ones we see are the ones that no one would want in Japan.

All that said, I'm sure you're learning something from the experiment.

Yes, you are right on the money. In the states, we get the pines that Japan does not want. Hence my comment in one of Judy's white pine threads. There will always be one or 2 issues, if not more, with almost all the white pine bonsai material available in the states. For the most part, if you do find a near "perfect one" it carries a several thousand dollar price tag.

Rob

 

[october]

Hi sawgrass. I am not sure I see the base you are trying to create. Normally, this radical twisting is meant to create a wide, new base or at least provide the illusion of one. Can you tell me what the final look might be in a virt or words. Are you going to raise the soil level to hide where it comes from the soil and just use the loop as a base?

Rob

 

[A Random User]

It would be interesting if a similar-sized "control" pine was allowed to grow freely next to this one. I suspect the girdling wires intended to thicken the trunk are really slowing it down.

This is just plain silly...

 

[TheSteve]

I agree with Brian. you are girdling the trunk. it will restrict flow. especially when you do it seven or eight lines along the trunk. With a spiral wrap the tree can redirect itself around the wire. can't do that with a tourniquet....

 

[Poink88]

I agree with Brian. you are girdling the trunk. it will restrict flow. especially when you do it seven or eight lines along the trunk. With a spiral wrap the tree can redirect itself around the wire. can't do that with a tourniquet....

My thoughts too. Like airlayering, you might restrict flow only to the top tourniquet and actually create reverse taper on that one...with possibility of some managing to escape through each in diminishing quantity. This is like a series of dams on a river.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

This is just plain silly...

Only if you're unwilling to explore the possibility that your technique has no merit.
Have fun Stacy.

 

[A Random User]

I agree with Brian. you are girdling the trunk. it will restrict flow. especially when you do it seven or eight lines along the trunk. With a spiral wrap the tree can redirect itself around the wire. can't do that with a tourniquet....

Curious ??? Have you tried what I am doing ???
Reason why I ask is that if you haven't, well you and Brian
both are just, ummm.... Guessing aren't you.

I don't have to guess... see, I have both, one's that are
growing with the wire, and one's without. The one's with
have definitely thickened up faster.
Sorry...

 

[TheSteve]

I've spiral wrapped pines but never girdled them like this. You have a sample size of one and a control size of one. not a very persuasive argument. In theory, if you are wounding the cambium with this technique it should reflect itself in the foliage as well. your other pine have twice as many buds and longer needles? I'd say, since you barely let the wire bite that you really aren't doing anything and the difference in trunks is either genetic or this one was bigger to begin with. But I'm not there so can't really say.

 

[A Random User]

Only if you're unwilling to explore the possibility that your technique has no merit.
Have fun Stacy.

I would be more than welcome to explore the
possibilities that my technique had no merit
if I didn't already know that it did...

How can you tell me or anyone here it does
not if you yourself have not tried it ???
This makes sense ???

 

[Poink88]

Is it possible that the thickening was caused by the trees reaction to the bending damage rather than the tourniquet? I know some trees bulk up faster at damaged areas as the tree attempts to fix and heal over it.

Just wondering.