Best beginner juniper?

[GailC]

I'd like to pick up a nursery juniper to start learning on but there are so many varieties to choose from.
Which would be the best to start with? I'm really interested in trying a semi cascade.

 

[just.wing.it]

IMHO, Procumbens Nana.
It's the one I've had best luck with so far.
Here's mine, I got it from Home Depot for $12.

 

[just.wing.it]

It's got 2 cascading branches to choose from.

 

[Vance Wood]

When you looked at this tree what was the best feature you could see? What was obvious, and what was a little deeper?

 

[just.wing.it]

When you looked at this tree what was the best feature you could see? What was obvious, and what was a little deeper?

Best: it looked very healthy to me.
Obvious: I wanted to attempt a cascade.
Deeper: I don't know if I've gotten there yet....

 

[Nybonsai12]

Procumbens is a likely easily available, inexpensive and grow in a manner that lends itself to cascade.

 

[GailC]

I thought Procumbens are a bit touchy? How do they handle root work?

 

[just.wing.it]

I thought Procumbens are a bit touchy? How do they handle root work?

I did repot mine about 2 weeks ago, just as I noticed the growing tips starting to move....and they've kept right on moving, hasn't skipped a beat yet, and I went hard on them roots, as I usually do.
So....I'll find out how tough it is in a few months...
This is my first procumbens, I've had decent to poor luck with Blue Rug.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I thought Procumbens are a bit touchy? How do they handle root work?

Although I've heard this, I haven't experienced it myself. Anything in moderation at the right time of the season and I think you should be fine. Mine grow like weeds, backbud profusely and are pretty low maintenance generally speaking. The only issues i have had are with fighting scale and the itchy hands from working with the foliage.

Shimpaku is a better variety of juniper for bonsai in my opinion but more difficult to find.

 

[Vance Wood]

I wrote previously in an earlier response to this thread: When you looked at this tree what was the best feature you could see? What was obvious, and what was a little deeper?

It amazes me that it seems no one got the point of where I was trying to go. This is the problem with Procumbens Junipers. If you tell me you have purchased a Procumbens Juniper the next thing you are going to tell me is that you plan to make a cascade bonsai out of this tree. Why is that? Does no one look to see if there are other options? That's like buying a jug of water and claiming you're going to make ice cubes.

 

[just.wing.it]

I wrote previously in an earlier response to this thread: When you looked at this tree what was the best feature you could see? What was obvious, and what was a little deeper?

It amazes me that it seems no one got the point of where I was trying to go. This is the problem with Procumbens Junipers. If you tell me you have purchased a Procumbens Juniper the next thing you are going to tell me is that you plan to make a cascade bonsai out of this tree. Why is that? Does no one look to see if there are other options? That's like buying a jug of water and claiming you're going to make ice cubes.

Well, honestly Vance, I went out looking for something to make a cascade style tree with.
But I totally understand what you're saying.
It's a ground cover plant, so it does lend itself naturally to cascade, but of course I could do something else with it....
Home Depot stock is all blank slates to me....blank canvases.

 

[GailC]

Shimpaku is a better variety of juniper for bonsai in my opinion but more difficult to find.

I would very much like a shimpaku but I've not seen one local. I'll look today while I'm at home depot. Usually they have blue rug, old gold, nana and the ones that grow upright like pines.

@Vance Wood
I'm trying to learn what is and isn't good nursery material. Is there something about just wing it's nana that you dislike or?

You almost seem offended that someone would buy a droopy plant then cascade it. I'm trying to understand why, sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

 

[music~maker]

I wrote previously in an earlier response to this thread: When you looked at this tree what was the best feature you could see? What was obvious, and what was a little deeper?

It amazes me that it seems no one got the point of where I was trying to go. This is the problem with Procumbens Junipers. If you tell me you have purchased a Procumbens Juniper the next thing you are going to tell me is that you plan to make a cascade bonsai out of this tree. Why is that? Does no one look to see if there are other options? That's like buying a jug of water and claiming you're going to make ice cubes.

I think the challenge for many is that these grow slowly and if one hasn't yet watched one grow over a 5-10 year or longer period, it isn't necessarily clear what's possible. Even the "obvious" cascades are often not what a "good" cascade should look like. People just wire down the tail into a cascade and then call it one. Good ones are grown, pruned, wired, re-grown, pruned, wired, ad nauseum, until they develop into a proper cascading trunk.

I think this one probably has the base to be an informal upright if the cascading idea was abandoned altogether and growth directed upward instead of out. It would probably be a better tree too. But it's arguably a 10-15 year project to properly set it in that direction and build the trunk. But then again, so is the cascade if done properly.

 

[GailC]

I think this one probably has the base to be an informal upright if the cascading idea was abandoned altogether

Thank you for explaining, it helped a lot. I can't always see the tree within but once it's pointed out I can.

I also get that you shouldn't always take the obvious route. My first thought would have been a cascade too, thanks for the reminder to slow down and really look at what you have.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I'd like to pick up a nursery juniper to start learning on but there are so many varieties to choose from.
Which would be the best to start with? I'm really interested in trying a semi cascade.

This is a more complicated question than it appears on the surface. First, just to confuse you completely, here is a link to some of the most common Chinese juniper cultivars.

But that doesn't mean that you have to buy a Chinese juniper, or for that matter, that Chinese junipers are the best to start with. They just happen to be generally hardy, are adaptable to a wide range of climates, and respond relatively well to bonsai culture. They are also broadly available in nurseries... pretty much everywhere. Broad availability equals low price - so it is a good path to go if you plan on killing some trees (which all beginners will do and even masters will do - though hopefully less frequently ).

I think the point Vance was trying to make (or at least what I took away from his post) is that you shouldn't immediately jump in and say "I want to style a semi-cascade". You should style the tree based on what the best possibilities are. Some of these juniper cultivars with low growth habits all look like cascades in a nursery pot... if you let them. I have a blue rug juniper right now that if you looked at the foliage all you would see is weeping branches. However if you look at the nebari and the trunk base (which is where our eye should always start) it is going to be a very different bonsai.

So what I would recommend if you want to style a semi-cascade, is to go to nurseries and specifically look for a tree with nebari and trunk that scream "semi-cascade". This may be a Chinese juniper or it may not be. One of the best cascades I have seen (that won the Best of Show in Chicago in 1995) was an English ivy. It started with good bones and was just meticulously developed over years and years.

 

[just.wing.it]

I haven't done any styling of this tree yet, it's in a terracotta flowerpot for the foreseeable future.
Who knows, maybe it won't end up that way.
The difference between what Vance is saying and what I am doing, is intent.
I, for the first time in a few years, decided that I would like to attempt a cascade style tree. I didn't intend on getting a juniper, but I went looking for a candidate.
I think what Vance is saying is very common among people who don't know much about bonsai, which is that they see a ground cover plant and immediately assume "cascade!".....
I have other ground cover junis that I am not styling as cascade.

 

[GailC]

All points taken. While I do greatly prefer a juniper for a cascade, if I found a pine that was just perfect, I would go with it instead.

Is the blue rug variety decent for bonsai? I really like the color but I don't know how hard it is to fight against their natural flat growth pattern.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I really like the color but I don't know how hard it is to fight against their natural flat growth pattern.

It can be easily wired to maintain any shape you desire (on hard wood). The biggest issue with many of these ground-cover junipers is that it is tough to get decent caliper in the trunk. They will throw out 3' branches and still have a trunk caliper less than an inch. Other cultivars, if you get a 3' branch it will be supported by a 4" trunk.

 

[GailC]

Well that makes me feel stupid for throwing out the free blue rug I got last year.
It had a decent base with branches in proportion. It was gnarly and I had no idea what to do with it so out it went.

 

[clive bennett]

Juniperus chinensis 'Shimpaku' or just Chinensis, loads to read about care and design grows well and has great foliage. Some of the needle leaved Junipers can make great bonsai but you need to be a masochist to work them they cut your hands to ribbons