Best Root Stock for Grafting Cork Bark JBP in Midwest (Zone 5b) ?

[DrBonsai]

As a future project, I am thinking about grafting JBP Cork Bark (Nishiki?) on a more winter hardy root stock than JBP.
Jonas Dupuich has an excellent blog: https://bonsaitonight.com/2013/01/15/creating-cork-bark-black-pine/ , which goes into the
details pretty well. My question would be, " Which species of pine would be the best root stock for the JBP scions ?"
There are many choices such as Scots Pine, Pinus Nigra, Pinus Strobus etc.
Anyone have experience or opinions on what would work best ?

 

[0soyoung]

p. sylvestris

 

[DrBonsai]

Thank you ! Everyone have a Healthy and Happy New Year !

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Pinus Nigra and Pinus Uncinata are more often used as understock for grafting then P. Sylvestris

 

[chicago1980]

As a future project, I am thinking about grafting JBP Cork Bark (Nishiki?) on a more winter hardy root stock than JBP.
Jonas Dupuich has an excellent blog: https://bonsaitonight.com/2013/01/15/creating-cork-bark-black-pine/ , which goes into the
details pretty well. My question would be, " Which species of pine would be the best root stock for the JBP scions ?"
There are many choices such as Scots Pine, Pinus Nigra, Pinus Strobus etc.
Anyone have experience or opinions on what would work best ?

When you graft JBP needles on a trunk, does the trunk take on the characteristics of the foliage? I really like JBP needles and love the trunks of ponderosa pine.

 

[DrBonsai]

I believe its pretty common to graft JBP on to Ponderosa trunks. Its easier to find nice Ponderosa
trunks here in the states and then graft on JBP for the needles.
For reference you can see this post: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/grafting-pine-branches.7117/

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Cork Bark Japanese Black pines are not as winter hardy as the normal form of JBP. At best cork bark JBP should be considered zone 7 pines. No colder. So the cork bark JBP can not be wintered outdoors in zone 5b, regardless of the choice of understock. For this reason, your choice of root stock should primarily be based on matching bark color and texture. For corkers I would use normal forms of JBP. Graft low and into the root system. Pinus nigra is a fair match for bark texture. P sylvestris can show a bit of red in mature bark color. But because corkers are so much less winter hardy than normal JBP, you might as well just use JBP.

Now if you were grafting JWP, which the scion is hardy in zone 5, even into zone 4. I would use Eastern white pine EWP, P strobus as the understock. The advantage of strobus over sylvestris and nigra, is that it tolerates cold wet winters very well. I have had strobus completely submerged in ice and water for a winter (not on purpose) and no problems at all in spring, once the ice melted, just lifted the pots and set them on the bench. Strobus tolerates wet soils in winter. Strobus is hardy thru zone 4a, it is the second most cold hardy pine in the eastern North America, only the jack pine is more cold tolerant.

 

[leatherback]

Strobus tolerates wet soils in winter. Strobus is hardy thru zone 4a, it is the second most cold hardy pine in the eastern North America, only the jack pine is more cold tolerant.

sounds like a pine for me!

 

[leatherback]

When you graft JBP needles on a trunk, does the trunk take on the characteristics of the foliage?

No!

There might be a bit of mixing of cambium around the grafting joint when the two grow together. But the main trunk stay the same species / keeps its looks (genetics do not change). THis is also the reason why cork bark pine on non-cork roots show inverse taper around the joint, and why you do not want arakawa maple on regular maple roots.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

sounds like a pine for me!

The single greatest value of P. strobus is as understock for bonsai worthy cultivars of Japanese white pine.

As a species for bonsai, P. strobus is awful. Well maybe not completely awful, but it is frustrating. You will have a difficult time trying to shape and manage strobus foliage. You never get the nice foliage pads that you see a JWP form. They always end up looking like pompoms of wispy needles stuck on the ends of sticks. There are a very small few strobus that have achieved exhibition bonsai status, one is owned by Vance Hana, the other I believe originated with Jim Doyle, and ended up as part of the collection at the NC Arboretum Bonsai collection in Ashville North Carolina. Those are the only 2 examples I can think of. Given the thousands of USA bonsai hobbyists, and the abundance of strobus in the landscape, if it were an easy species to work with, you would see them everywhere. But we don't because they are a pain to work with, and frustrate most grower. I put one on the burn pile after struggling with it for 20 years. After 20 years it still looked like crap. So I gave up on it. There are easier species of pine to work with, JWP for one. I would just use strobus as understock for grafting, as its tolerance of cold and wet winters is useful. And it has generally good resistance to other root diseases. Does not develop rots easily, winter or summer.

 

[leatherback]

As a species for bonsai, P. strobus is awful.

Thank you for spoiling the dream

 

[Adair M]

Thank you for spoiling the dream

You should have said:

Thank you for telling the truth!

 

[leatherback]

You should have said:

Thank you for telling the truth!

lol. true.

But still also spoiling the dream :

I have had strobus completely submerged in ice and water for a winter (not on purpose) and no problems at all in spring, once the ice melted, just lifted the pots and set them on the bench. Strobus tolerates wet soils in winter.

sounds like a pine for me!