Better than "good enough"

[sorce]

Knowledge of Self is an Advanced Topic.
It is hard to point out your own flaws, really dive in and think about WHO you are.
It becomes easier to find and better yourself, once you become aware of flaws you didn't know existed.

I would like everyone to participate seriously in this thread.
I believe it will enhance ourselves, our community here, and our trees.

I read these articles the other day, and they put a lot of stuff into perspective for me, and they should for you too.

This is an Article by Will Heath.
http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3088
"The problem with Bonsai Forums"

Who are you?

I...am quite Social...but I take Bonsai seriously.

This thread title...which I hope he caught...is about what Vance talks about in his article...
http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=930
"The problem with American Bonsai"

Who are you?

This morning...I thought about how much work I have to do in spring.
So much work that there is no way in hell I would do it if I wanted "good enough".

You've seen where I hang out at work, 20 stories up a high rise hanging on a rig we built.
When it's time for a safety check, my guy always talks about how much bad shit happens if you go with "good enough". People die if that stuff is "good enough".

Maybe that's why I understand how "good enough" is just not enough.

My time is not worth less than my very best.


Please read the articles and reflect.

Tell us who you are.

How can you get better?

I hope this reflection can take a couple folks from "good enough", to outstanding, and make this great place a little better.

Life is Short.

Make the most of it.

Thanks!

Sorce

 

[0soyoung]

Getting too deep.

It is like sailing. I can do it alone. I can do it with other sailers. No matter. I mostly like going it alone.
The joy is in the journey, but I've got to get somewhere. I don't want to take forever to get there. When I get there, a little restful joy and go again.

America's Cup foiling catamarans! Love 'em. That's 'gettin' there'!
Probably won't ever be on one. Thrills me to just see them, though.


Oh, sorry; this was supposed to be about bonsai . Well, substitute 'bonsai' for 'sailing' = same story.

Will Heath's whining really doesn't do it for me.


'good enough'?

 

[Adair M]

Ah. "Good enough".

I've been flamed dozens of times on this forum for pointing out problems I see in trees, particularly wiring problem. Oh, they say they're not planning to show it, what difference does it make?

Truely, I'm still pulling the arrows from my back!

So now, you're no longer the clown, Sorce, but the standard bearer for higher quality?

Well, I'm all for it! I personally believe that all of us can make better bonsai.

So, to that end, I will continue to share what I consider "best practices" as I learn and apply them. I know there are others who are better at it than myself, and I try to learn from them as best I can.

 

[sorce]

you're no longer the clown, Sorce,

Oh I'll remain a clown!

Even the worst work is better having a bit of fun, with a smile!

I can't get away from going against the norm either...

But for the record, I think of stuff you say everytime I am with my trees!

Your dedication is a great inspiration.

Thanks for that!

Also...when reading the article, about different types of forum, "personalities", I can see folks confusing you for one of the negative stereotypes, but only because those folks are themselves, of the stereotype looking for a "yes man", a back patter....

Keep breaking the cycle Adair!

You are well respected for it!

And a gentleman...

Sorce

 

[Eric Group]

I will not pretend that I read every word written in this subject in the link provided- but the mist of what I read was all centered around European Bonsai being better than a American because of better artistic tradition, better artistic education, a better cultural attitude towards success and fewer... "lazy people"? Correct?

While I suppose there is validity to many of those points, I think the discussion veered far away from the primary reason Bonsai are better in Europe- THEY CAN ESILY IMPORT QUALITY BONSAI FROM JAPAN! I have heard Lord knows how many stories about Americans visiting Japan, drooling over the gorgeous Bonsai at all the nurseries and hating the fact they could not buy them without either engaging in some sort of illicit shipping project where they disguise the truth of what the contents of the package are, OR taking the 2 YEAR quarantine plan into account, which let's be honest- SUCKS!! Even if your tree survives, you still have to wait two years to get it and PAY someone to do the quarantine for you. So while these American visit Japan, WISH they could buy the trees, a German- or other European tourist- would walk right up and buy TEN of them and have them shipped straight to their house, no questions asked! This has been the case for decades... now I do not pretend to know the shipping and Importing laws for trees in each European country, perhaps they have become more restrictive of late? It even recently that was not the case and the American vs European Bonsai divide is well established for some time!

So, ARE the Europeans at an advantage because of longer, more acclaimed artistic traditions? Do they focus more on the arts and arts education? I suppose they probably do- arts are an afterthought in the US mostly... once Allll Other education budgets and government funding is paid out they say "do we have anything left over? Ok I guess you can fund the arts with a tiny bit of that".... but despite this, we have tons of talented artists and many great Bonsai artists here in the US. The difference is the ease with which they can acquire JAPANESE Bonsai. In a nutshell that has more to do with it than any other single factor IMO.

So, great discussions surrounding this but it is all theory and pooitical undertones- the facts are quite easy to see and understand and have a larger impact IMO.

 

[sorce]

"lazy people"? Correct?

I wonder how much "lazy" is confused with what is really just plain "stupid".

The more I think about anyone I may have ever qualified as "lazy", it's quite remarkable to realize that it is more a lack of experience, drive, and common sense that translates into what seemed "lazy".

Further....

Well, maybe I'm not the right person to figure on lazy.....

But there are quite a few things labeled "lazy" that are really just more efficient ways to get things done...

For instance...an Uncle of mine sat down with a plate of chips with some dip slapped on the plate, and called it, "the lazy man's way of eating"...

How much of that "lazy" is just an animal conserving energy for more important things?

I spoke of lazy recently here...
Quoting myself as lazy too, in wanting to keep a brush to clean algae off trunks right on every pot, so it's always there.

But is that lazy or efficiency?

Figure the eyesore of the brush there always, and the convenience it serves, the cost of the brush, the added value to the tree...etc...
Is it worth it?

I think people somehow fancy being "lazy", as if it is cool.

I don't even really think lazy exists.
It's a foolish concept!

Sorce

 

[Wilson]

It is an interesting article you shared, artists and hobbyists. We are a diverse group of people, involved in this for all kinds of different reasons. For me, I see people in the new world as more casual/laid back. It could be said that us hobbyists are too pleased just cultivating trees in pots, but like our trees we get better with time. I enjoy the mix of personalities and experience levels on this site. I am sure people will always have things to be displeased with, whether it is thinned skinned posters, or harsh critics. I love trees, and grew up influenced by magical paintings of The Group of Seven, so learning to reproduce my favorite images with living materials is a joy.

 

[Anthony]

Hee hee, Sorce,

don't want to buy books [ even at 1 cent ] -------don't want to go to a library.

Want all the information in point form.
Would prefer visual information ?
Want it all for free ?

Come to the Internet.

If you read at the IBC e-mail forum [ still in the archives ] and the IBC visual gallery ----- you would
see the difference - writing to be understood, is to the visual / image world.

Bonsai is meant for the real world.

Internet is for saying hi to folk.

The real problem we have noticed is newbees, trying to grow other than natives. Raises the level of difficulty.
Creates problems that need not exist.
Hence my last topic on natives and images to be shown.
Apart from California ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

" Get Better "

Master Health, as these bonsai down here are old enough the be children.

Make plans for them to be tended to in extreme time.

Remember Sorce, down here, they are done more for the peace of mind, reflection and mental good they do.
Not really for exhibition, or public showing.
Yeah a few friends come by and chat, sharing ideas and drink some home-made wine /white tea.

Plus, you take about 2 to 3 years for exhibition training and for their long term health they have a
generalised shape.

Get Better --------- would be Health.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

The real problem we have noticed is newbees, trying to grow other than natives. Raises the level of difficulty.

I agree.

Raises the level of difficulty beyond say...

Alberta Spruce?
Eastern Red Cedar?

In areas they are "native".

I believe so.

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

Sorce,

reading Vance's article, I have not much to offer.
If you grow in your backyard, fine.

When you want to exhibit, you have to play to the Exhibition's rules, and there is always supposed to be a
screening group.

So I am not sure how the standard would go down, if you get the best judges and let them do their job.
Judge can be Chinese, Japanese, Native to that country, just accepted by those who matter.
Once again Exhibition rules.
Good Day
Anthony






,

 

[_#1_]

I don't even really think lazy exists.
It's a foolish concept!

Sorce

I respectfully disagree

When something needs to get done at that moment and you don't do it at that moment; that's lazy to me.

As for the toothbrush thing, that's a good idea. But I can't seem to really do much of cleaning on deadwood though. Brush too soft. Think I'll buy a metal brush if I can't find one in the toolbox.

Was really surprise how strong the magnet is on these!

Native or not. As long as the tree is hardy to the buyer's zone right? I TRY to get trees, bushes/shrubs at least one zone cold hardier.

 

[Eric Group]

I wonder how much "lazy" is confused with what is really just plain "stupid".

The more I think about anyone I may have ever qualified as "lazy", it's quite remarkable to realize that it is more a lack of experience, drive, and common sense that translates into what seemed "lazy".

Further....

Well, maybe I'm not the right person to figure on lazy.....

But there are quite a few things labeled "lazy" that are really just more efficient ways to get things done...

For instance...an Uncle of mine sat down with a plate of chips with some dip slapped on the plate, and called it, "the lazy man's way of eating"...

How much of that "lazy" is just an animal conserving energy for more important things?

I spoke of lazy recently here...
Quoting myself as lazy too, in wanting to keep a brush to clean algae off trunks right on every pot, so it's always there.

But is that lazy or efficiency?

Figure the eyesore of the brush there always, and the convenience it serves, the cost of the brush, the added value to the tree...etc...
Is it worth it?

I think people somehow fancy being "lazy", as if it is cool.

I don't even really think lazy exists.
It's a foolish concept!

Sorce

I read an article recently about "lazy" people and it stated in some instances someone who is lazy by most accounts may actually be much smarter than people around them who judge them as lazy- the thought being intelligent/ creative people are commonly engaged in their own thoughts and don't NEED to be doing something every second of the day the way those who are incapable of that type of in depth thought.

Something to think about the next time you are feeling lazy....

 

[sorce]

Something to think about the next time you are feeling lazy....

No more dishes for me!

Lol.

Sorce

 

[Eric Group]

No more dishes for me!

Lol.

Sorce

Now you are working smart!

 

[Paradox]

I started to read the first link, but its SOOOOOO long.
Just not into reading a book about how somone's opinion of how bad internet forums are for learning right now.
If it wasnt for the internet, I wouldnt still be doing bonsai because there is no other way to learn around here and I would never have found out about NEBG, MABS, ABS or the National show.

 

[wireme]

Knowledge of Self is an Advanced Topic.
It is hard to point out your own flaws, really dive in and think about WHO you are.
It becomes easier to find and better yourself, once you become aware of flaws you didn't know existed.

I would like everyone to participate seriously in this thread.
I believe it will enhance ourselves, our community here, and our trees.

I read these articles the other day, and they put a lot of stuff into perspective for me, and they should for you too.

This is an Article by Will Heath.
http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3088
"The problem with Bonsai Forums"

Who are you?

I...am quite Social...but I take Bonsai seriously.

This thread title...which I hope he caught...is about what Vance talks about in his article...
http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=930
"The problem with American Bonsai"

Who are you?

This morning...I thought about how much work I have to do in spring.
So much work that there is no way in hell I would do it if I wanted "good enough".

You've seen where I hang out at work, 20 stories up a high rise hanging on a rig we built.
When it's time for a safety check, my guy always talks about how much bad shit happens if you go with "good enough". People die if that stuff is "good enough".

Maybe that's why I understand how "good enough" is just not enough.

My time is not worth less than my very best.


Please read the articles and reflect.

Tell us who you are.

How can you get better?

I hope this reflection can take a couple folks from "good enough", to outstanding, and make this great place a little better.

Life is Short.

Make the most of it.

Thanks!

Sorce

I figure good enough is good enough for lots of tree depending on the stage of development. Sometimes better and maybe can enable a person to have more trees.
Not that I'm against doing whatever you do the best you can, that's gotta be good. Striving for the best image all the time though? Maybe not so good for the trees.

Here's a little teaser, my tree for your contest (that's allowed isn't it?). This is what I would have called the good enough state. Would normally have stopped there, or sooner, good enough. I subjected myself and the tree to go beyond good enough, tried to.
Good practice for me no doubt, totally useless for future development of the tree in my opinion.
Contest entry should be up soon.

 

[sorce]

Striving for the best image all the time though?

No. Surely not!
(hey at least some folks are admitting not reading the article!)

Seriously though....that helped me see that I have my own flaw there...in letting ANYTHING die, just to get an image...I can do better.

I guess that makes it quite the opposite.

It's like me saying it's ok for some tips to brown...it's not, I can do better.

It's more about letting trees be ugly, running that sacrifice out, starting them over, or even just getting rid of them all together!

It kinda all boils right back down to patience.
Now....is good enough....
Waiting the ten years it should take..
That is "your best".

@Paradox I appreciate the honesty.
Honestly....you are one of the "whole" people anyway!

As opposed to someone like me who is as crooked as the day is long!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

entry

Damn! You snapped!

Sorce

 

[Waltron]

lol "last marsh mellow at the weight watchers campfire".