Better to focus on a single species as a beginner ?

Mayank

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Yes it is, imagin being in pre school and asked to draw your national flag, you need to draw a bonsai first. 😃


Thanks for your suggestions but I’m into shohin size or even mame And I can’t find small leaf ficus here, I would have liked to try the willow leaf ficus.

same for bougainvillea I don’t find the flower size to be realistic for miniature trees
Also, happy 100th anniversary! Just heard that on the news going back home yesterday.
 
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Mayank

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?
Was there an image to be attached to your message because I didn't see anything.
 
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Leo in N E Illinois

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Never heard of juvenile growth on a pine. What does it look like Leo?

The cotyledons of a seedling pine are juvenile leaves. Normally we would not see these except on seedlings, such as the Pinus lambertiana seedlings in the photo below. For Pinus pinea - stone pine, and other members of the group Pinaster, this group of species produces juvenile foliage for quite a number of years in early development. They also will revert to juvenile foliage when pruned, much in the manner that scale leaved junipers may revert to needle foliage when pruned hard. We don't see it in the pines we use for bonsai in northern North America.

The species most prone to produce juvenile foliage are P. brutia, P. canariensis, P. halepensis, P. heldreichii, P. pinaster, P pinea, and P. roxburghii. All of these are warm climate species, many are mediterranean climate species, none are likely to tolerate a Michigan or Illinois winter.

Cotyledons of P. lambertiana
IMG_20200824_133809309.jpg

image of P. pinea foliage from Wikipedia. Juvenile on left, adult on right
Pinus_pinea_foliage.jpg
 

Mayank

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The cotyledons of a seedling pine are juvenile leaves. Normally we would not see these except on seedlings, such as the Pinus lambertiana seedlings in the photo below. For Pinus pinea - stone pine, and other members of the group Pinaster, this group of species produces juvenile foliage for quite a number of years in early development. They also will revert to juvenile foliage when pruned, much in the manner that scale leaved junipers may revert to needle foliage when pruned hard. We don't see it in the pines we use for bonsai in northern North America.

The species most prone to produce juvenile foliage are P. brutia, P. canariensis, P. halepensis, P. heldreichii, P. pinaster, P pinea, and P. roxburghii. All of these are warm climate species, many are mediterranean climate species, none are likely to tolerate a Michigan or Illinois winter.

Cotyledons of P. lambertiana
View attachment 326547

image of P. pinea foliage from Wikipedia. Juvenile on left, adult on right
Pinus_pinea_foliage.jpg
Oh wow, did not know this! Thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it!
 

Atom#28

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Kill cheap things till you get it out of your system,, the need to work all the time

^That is probably THE best piece of advice for us newbies. I think I've killed 20ish trees in the last 12 months, but each and every single death has come with a valuable lesson. Watch them die and think critically about what you could have done better, faster, slower, or differently. And don't forget to perform an autopsy.


For me, owning a wide variety of species has offered much more opportunity for learning how trees prefer to live in MY yard, and also an opportunity to learn as many techniques as possible. I'm such a hands-on learner, and above all else, an artistic tinkerer, I think I would die of boredom if I only had a bunch of one species!
 

Adair M

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^That is probably THE best piece of advice for us newbies. I think I've killed 20ish trees in the last 12 months, but each and every single death has come with a valuable lesson. Watch them die and think critically about what you could have done better, faster, slower, or differently. And don't forget to perform an autopsy.

For me, owning a wide variety of species has offered much more opportunity for learning how trees prefer to live in MY yard, and also an opportunity to learn as many techniques as possible. I'm such a hands-on learner, and above all else, an artistic tinkerer, I think I would die of boredom if I only had a bunch of one species!


I have to say that if I am considering venturing into a new species, I might purchase an inexpensive one first, and see how it does under my growing conditions.
 

YukiShiro

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For me, owning a wide variety of species has offered much more opportunity for learning how trees prefer to live in MY yard, and also an opportunity to learn as many techniques as possible. I'm such a hands-on learner, and above all else, an artistic tinkerer, I think I would die of boredom if I only had a bunch of one species!

^this and the fact that keeping different species enables you to have some bonsai that shines in every season. deciduous trees in winter might looks nice without their leaves, but evergreens adds some variety as they stay green. late winter you can have stuff that blooms. summer some stuff may have fruit... etc, let there always be some interest.

best regards
Herman
 

leatherback

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So yeah, the question, specialize on one species, I would say, no. Keep a range of species to learn which you like, how they respond and what works in your care, before committing to more expensive trees.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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This thread is still alive. The OP, @YAN mentioned that they will be moving from Lebanon to Canada in the near future. So in the short term, the question for them is moot. Good luck on the move, and in Canada there are active bonsai scenes in Vancouver, Montreal and Ontario areas.

But for others considering specializing; I am definitely in favor of a varied collection, at least several species. But MORE IMPORTANT than have different species, get trees at different STAGES OF BONSAI DEVELOPMENT. Care for seedlings, and sticks in pots is similar regardless of species, and teaches you nothing about care of mature bonsai. You need at least one or two near exhibition ready bonsai to learn the skills needed to handle exhibition quality bonsai. WIth younger stock you use lots of heavy gauge wire to make big bends. With exhibition ready trees, fine wire is all you need. With seedlings, and sticks in pots, each tree needs maybe 15 minutes of styling attention a year. With mature exhibition quality trees you can end up spending 8 to 16 hours just doing detail wiring, or detail pruning of little branches. Large investments of time working on details, several times a year. The difference is huge between sticks in pots and fully developed mature trees. This is where it is important to have variety. Only with trees in all stages of development can you have a truly balanced bonsai education.
 

YAN

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This thread is still alive. The OP, @YAN mentioned that they will be moving from Lebanon to Canada in the near future. So in the short term, the question for them is moot. Good luck on the move, and in Canada there are active bonsai scenes in Vancouver, Montreal and Ontario areas.

But for others considering specializing; I am definitely in favor of a varied collection, at least several species. But MORE IMPORTANT than have different species, get trees at different STAGES OF BONSAI DEVELOPMENT. Care for seedlings, and sticks in pots is similar regardless of species, and teaches you nothing about care of mature bonsai. You need at least one or two near exhibition ready bonsai to learn the skills needed to handle exhibition quality bonsai. WIth younger stock you use lots of heavy gauge wire to make big bends. With exhibition ready trees, fine wire is all you need. With seedlings, and sticks in pots, each tree needs maybe 15 minutes of styling attention a year. With mature exhibition quality trees you can end up spending 8 to 16 hours just doing detail wiring, or detail pruning of little branches. Large investments of time working on details, several times a year. The difference is huge between sticks in pots and fully developed mature trees. This is where it is important to have variety. Only with trees in all stages of development can you have a truly balanced bonsai education.
Thank you Leo to Montreal it is, problem is moving to an apartment first.

how much one of those exhibition ready bonsais cost ? Shohin size maybe?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Well cost is always cited as the reason so many never get one. And there is no easy answer to the problem. When I first started bonsai I often would buy 2 or 3 "cheap sticks in pots" from nurseries every month for the 6 months a year the nurseries were open. I would drop around $50 a month on various plants that I'd drag home. Then I ended up with a yard full of sticks in pots that took most of my free time to keep up with watering and the few minutes a year of training each would need. I stopped spending more money on sticks in pots. I started to "save up" my "mad money". Now, once every year or two I have a little bundle, and can go out and buy one item for the year or two year period. I've spent as much as $650 on a single specimen. But that was after not buying anything for a couple years. That is one possible solution.

Joining a bonsai club can help you source good material. Definitely join the Montreal Society when you get there, even if you don't have any trees at the time, because you are living in an apartment. Get to know the members. For myself, I got to know one of our members who is currently 86 years old. He was / is in the process of downsizing his collection of trees. I was able to buy a Hinoki from him that was "local club show ready" and with time could be improved to be even better. It is a damn nice tree. The pot was worth about 3/4 of the asking price and I bought. it. It was less than "market", I paid only $250 for a tree that at a "Bonsai Business" might be several hundred more.

Point is, getting to know members with good trees, you will occasionally get offered opportunities to buy some established stock. If you have been "saving up" you will then have the "mad money" when the opportunity comes along.

Sometimes you can trade. I traded a male persimmon and a wisteria to another member for a really old boxwood. The member had a female persimmon that wasn't producing fruit, I solved his problem, with a tree I didn't value, as I had lost my female persimmon.

Another option is to trade labor for trees with and older member. Most bonsai societies have average age over 65 years old, if you are younger, and able to bend and lift, you can really help out the older members, and you can work out deals where you can pick up well developed trees.

Last is, if you take workshops with traveling artists, for example Ted Matson or Peter Tea, or any of the many that travel. Talk with them, tell them what types of trees you are looking for and your budget, and they often will work as middle men or referrals sources and connect you to someone selling something. Network.

Exhibition quality trees only come along once in a while, not necessarily every year. Plan and be ready for when you stumble across a good deal. Start shopping now, when you can not buy, so you are familiar with price ranges for material that you are interested in, so that when a good deal does come along you recognize it as a good deal. Because like the Mirai website demonstrates, some trees can be "over priced", and some are good deals even at the high prices, and sometimes a great tree will come along at a modest or low price. It is good to learn the market for trees you like, so you recognize the good deal when it comes along.
 

YAN

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Well cost is always cited as the reason so many never get one. And there is no easy answer to the problem. When I first started bonsai I often would buy 2 or 3 "cheap sticks in pots" from nurseries every month for the 6 months a year the nurseries were open. I would drop around $50 a month on various plants that I'd drag home. Then I ended up with a yard full of sticks in pots that took most of my free time to keep up with watering and the few minutes a year of training each would need. I stopped spending more money on sticks in pots. I started to "save up" my "mad money". Now, once every year or two I have a little bundle, and can go out and buy one item for the year or two year period. I've spent as much as $650 on a single specimen. But that was after not buying anything for a couple years. That is one possible solution.

Joining a bonsai club can help you source good material. Definitely join the Montreal Society when you get there, even if you don't have any trees at the time, because you are living in an apartment. Get to know the members. For myself, I got to know one of our members who is currently 86 years old. He was / is in the process of downsizing his collection of trees. I was able to buy a Hinoki from him that was "local club show ready" and with time could be improved to be even better. It is a damn nice tree. The pot was worth about 3/4 of the asking price and I bought. it. It was less than "market", I paid only $250 for a tree that at a "Bonsai Business" might be several hundred more.

Point is, getting to know members with good trees, you will occasionally get offered opportunities to buy some established stock. If you have been "saving up" you will then have the "mad money" when the opportunity comes along.

Sometimes you can trade. I traded a male persimmon and a wisteria to another member for a really old boxwood. The member had a female persimmon that wasn't producing fruit, I solved his problem, with a tree I didn't value, as I had lost my female persimmon.

Another option is to trade labor for trees with and older member. Most bonsai societies have average age over 65 years old, if you are younger, and able to bend and lift, you can really help out the older members, and you can work out deals where you can pick up well developed trees.

Last is, if you take workshops with traveling artists, for example Ted Matson or Peter Tea, or any of the many that travel. Talk with them, tell them what types of trees you are looking for and your budget, and they often will work as middle men or referrals sources and connect you to someone selling something. Network.

Exhibition quality trees only come along once in a while, not necessarily every year. Plan and be ready for when you stumble across a good deal. Start shopping now, when you can not buy, so you are familiar with price ranges for material that you are interested in, so that when a good deal does come along you recognize it as a good deal. Because like the Mirai website demonstrates, some trees can be "over priced", and some are good deals even at the high prices, and sometimes a great tree will come along at a modest or low price. It is good to learn the market for trees you like, so you recognize the good deal when it comes along.
Wow thanks for your time to write that, was very helpful, specially that I’m not familiar with bonsai clubs, members, shows, exhibitions and workshops, we have non of that here.

I’ll remember all you said when I’m ready to dive in.
 

Graft

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I started bonsai at lockdown with two trees in the garden. I now have...

Gingko
Elm
Zelkova
Spruce
Sycamore
Horse chesnut
Azalea
Larch
Hawthorn
Crab apple
Silver birch
Firethorn
Fig
Oak
Maple
Juniper
Ash
Yew
Spiraea
What I think is an Acer negundo
And one unknown. Oh and I killed a dwarf Scots pine.

Try everything you will soon know what you like to work with and what you don't😀😀.
 
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Graft

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Wow thanks for your time to write that, was very helpful, specially that I’m not familiar with bonsai clubs, members, shows, exhibitions and workshops, we have non of that here.

I’ll remember all you said when I’m ready to dive in.
Love your signature!!!
 
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YAN

Yamadori
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I started bonsai at lockdown with two trees in the garden. I now have...

Gingko
Elm
Zelkova
Spruce
Sycamore
Horse chesnut
Azalea
Larch
Hawthorn
Crab apple
Silver birch
Firethorn
Fig
Oak
Maple
Juniper
Ash
Yew
Spiraea
What I think is an Acer negundo
And one unknown. Oh and I killed a dwarf Scots pine.

Try everything you will soon know what you like to work with and what you don't😀😀.
Nice,
Good luck with those keep us updated
 

Anonymouse

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I think try them all exept Pinus Pinea since they are hard to control. Try finding one that works for you.
Lucky, you have native European Olive!
 
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GGB

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Of all the places to move on earth! Montreal has an incredible botanical garden featuring very important bonsai and penjing trees. You'll see some great examples of what can be grown in that climate after you visit. I wouldn't mind moving there myself, but I won't touch on that subject here haha
 
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