Big ‘Little Gem’ vine maple (Acer circinatum)

Cruiser

Chumono
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Lots of branch options with this one. It was surprising to find a vine maple with this much ramification.
Those tiny leaves are the perfect scale to create a mini big-leaf maple.
The plan is to draw inspiration from the local trees and create a loose broom style.

The tentative plan:
This winter, when the tree is naked, go in and remove some of the branches. Seal wounds.
In spring, repot. Then, after the first flush hardens off (Juneish), give it a haircut to start building ramification closer to the trunk.

Thoughts, opinions? I know that vine maples are relative newcomers to the bonsai world, so any tips/advice are appreciated.
 

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Ininaatigoons

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That one is big! I wonder how old it is? I was thinking of bumping my collection with one of these. I don't know anything about them except the leaves are a good size for bonsai, so just admiring.
 

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That one is big! I wonder how old it is? I was thinking of bumping my collection with one of these. I don't know anything about them except the leaves are a good size for bonsai, so just admiring.
Too big, a back injury waiting to happen. Really looking forward to lightening the load next spring!
If I remove any of the larger branches I’ll count the rings and post an age update.
 

Cruiser

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Tremendous potential there. I know little about Acer circinatum, they are not hardy here, so we don't see them. But looks like you have an infinite number of choices. I like your plan as is.
Thanks for the feedback.
I’ve come to realize that the best advice is solicited by stating your intentions and waiting for the experts to correct you (or not).
 

andrewiles

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These do air layer nicely. Just separated two layers on mine. So when you cut back you might consider that route. It's hard to tell from the photo but I assume this is grafted? On mine the graft junction is really ugly since it's a different width than the underlying stock.
 

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These do air layer nicely. Just separated two layers on mine. So when you cut back you might consider that route. It's hard to tell from the photo but I assume this is grafted? On mine the graft junction is really ugly since it's a different width than the underlying stock.
I was wondering if these can be air layered, thank you! How long did yours take to root?

The tree is grafted. Its not pretty, but could be worse. What do you think of coiling wire around the trunk just above the graft union to produce new roots?
 

andrewiles

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Took mine about two months. I started the layer really late though, in June. Separated in August. Probably better to start in early May. I had to separate a bit early to give it time to settle before winter.

PXL_20220830_223834510 (1).jpg

Ground layer with a wire tourniquet (without cutting the cambium) is probably a safe bet. It's a bit lower risk than air layering the entire tree at the trunk, though you may not get as nice a set of radial roots and it will take at least a full season or two.

Probably comes down to how comfortable you are with air layers and whether you're willing to risk the entire tree. I do think you'll eventually need to get it on its own roots if you want a good tree. So by that reasoning better to take that leap now than later.
 

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Instead of pruning this winter and repotting in spring, another member suggested I layer the tree above the graft as a first step.

This sounds like a good idea since it needs to be layered at some point anyway, and with the tree currently unpruned, there will be a lot of foliage to help push roots.

I’m curious to hear what others think and if there are any tips for layering a tree this large?

The tentative plan would be to start a layer as buds are swelling this spring.
-Cut an inch wide girdle right above the graft union.
-Twist wire tightly against the top of the girdle
-Place a pot of sphagnum moss around the base of the girdled tree. (Can pumice, fir bark, or DE be used for this?)
-Check for roots around July.
-Depending on quantity and placement of roots, either separate the layer July-September or separate Spring ‘24.
 

andrewiles

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My 2 cents:

If you're not in a big rush, layer the tree in pieces. That way you don't loose the whole thing if you layer at the base. Esp. true if you haven't done many layers before.
  • Yes, to inch-wide girdle and wire tourniquet. Though if you are doing the whole tree at the base another option is to ground layer it. A bit safer. In this case skip cutting the cambium and just girdle with a large wire. Then raise the soil level over this point. This would definitely need at least a year to separate.
  • I personally have been using clear air layer balls like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SJ7WCHN/ref=twister_B08SC1VHMW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 These wouldn't be large enough if you do the entire tree though.
  • I like the clear ones so I can see the roots developing and know when to separate. I've had no issues with the roots being exposed to light with this approach.
  • I like to add a small circular plate to make sure the roots initially head out sideways. Any type of material that I can cut and fit around the trunk there. A piece of rigid plastic, etc.
  • Sphaghum works well but make sure you shred it if it's long fibered. It'll be hard to separate from the roots otherwise. I've recently been using 80/20 perlite/peat mix instead, which separates much better. You can use pretty much anything, as long as it doesn't get too dry (large size pumice drys too quickly imho) or stay too wet.
  • I also use a rooting powder. Little Gem doesn't need very strong stuff, maybe 3000 ppm.
  • In our climate I usually do my layers in early May, just after the initial flush. By July you should be able to separate if you're just doing a portion of the tree. It's unlikely you'd need to wait an entire year with these. They root well. Goal then is to get enough root growth post separation to survive winter. Initially keep out of late afternoon sun. Ideally protect from freezing that first winter.
Here's one of the Little Gem I layered last year, in a 15" Anderson deep propagation flat for scale. Maybe 1/10th of the original tree. I layered a few last year and will do a few more each year going forward.

PXL_20230210_000238787 (1).jpg

And here's a closeup of a layer point before putting the ball around it:

1676021648447.png

Btw, it's probably going to be tough to wire anything older than 3 year old growth on these guys. Stiff and brittle branches. That's one reason why I'm in favor of layering smaller portions. You have a nice tree but you do have some straight branches at the base. Doubt you can add any movement to those.

I think they will make fun clump style trees. They grow pretty agressively with short internodes.

Good luck!
 

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Thanks for the detailed reply. Your tree looks to be coming along nicely. Creating multiple layers could be a good route. The top and side branches are going to get reduced anyway.

My end goal is to create a tree in the spirit of a large forest grown big-leaf maple. So I do want to layer off the main trunk as soon as possible. Then maybe create layers from the top and sides.

The challenge I’m running into is the best way to layer at the graft. There are large branches just above it that will get in the way of a pot or limit how deep of a pot will fit. The wire tourniquet method seems most appropriate in this circumstance but I’ve heard it doesn’t always produce a radial spread of roots…
Another option would be to cut the low branches and seal them with glue or some other impermeable barrier. Then a larger pot would fit around the layer….
 

andrewiles

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Well, you could air layer right above the graft but rather than using another container just raise the soil level in the pot above that point, like you would a ground layer. You could even cover some of the lower branch bases with that soil if needed, as long as you could raise the lip of the pot enough.
 

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Well, you could air layer right above the graft but rather than using another container just raise the soil level in the pot above that point, like you would a ground layer. You could even cover some of the lower branch bases with that soil if needed, as long as you could raise the lip of the pot enough.
Yeah that’s a good idea.

To increase the depth I may remove a cookie off the bottom of the roots so the tree sits lower in the pot.
 

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Buds are opening. It’s time to layer.
1681527439599.jpeg

This is a big tree that will churn out ample foliage.
1681527306217.jpeg

The little gem variety is usually grafted onto standard vine maple stock. This tree is no exception. The bulge resembles a nut sack.
1681527241038.jpeg

To provide enough depth in the pot to ground layer, 3” of root mass was sawed of the bottom. Besides that, roots were mostly left alone.
1681528598106.jpeg

The girdle was scraped. I do hope it is wide enough.
1681527829299.jpeg

Rooting hormone powder was rubbed into the “upper lip” of the girdle. Aluminum wire was tightly wrapped against it to promote swelling.
1681527993741.jpeg

I created a flat disc from the bottom of a different nursery pot. It was placed below the layer site to encourage lateral root growth.
1681528109902.jpeg

The tree went back into its original pot. 100% long fiber sphagnum moss was tucked around the girdle. I had enough to create a moss layer 3-4” deep on top of the disc. The moss depth will be approximately 2” above where the roots should emerge.
1681528304178.jpeg

In case the moss wasn’t enough, DF bark was placed over it to help contain moisture.
1681528981441.jpeg


The plan is to check on things around Independence Day. If there is full radial root growth I may decide to separate the layer.
 
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andrewiles

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Wish you the best!

That spaghnum will be fun to extract from the roots though.

Since there is so much foliage you'll need a lot of new roots. Even if you see good root growth this year I think you should give it at least 2 years before separation. Really no rush since it has a large pot to work with and it's already positioned to grow out a flat base.
 

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Thanks. I “scissored” the moss as it soaked to cut the fibers and reduce tangling. Hopefully it cooperates.

The eventual plan is to reduce the height of the tree. Hypothetically, if there was good radial root growth by July, would it be reasonable to take a couple feet off the top and then remove the layer?

I would prefer not to have the tree in its current pot for any longer than is necessary. It’s just too heavy and cumbersome and still needs to be transported.
 

andrewiles

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Yeah, I think if you remove the top when you separate you'll be able to do it this year, assuming good root growth. I've also had success putting newly separated layers under morning sun and mist when I think they don't have enough roots. Basically treating like a newly collected tree for the hottest parts of July and August.
 

Potawatomi13

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Yeah, I think if you remove the top when you separate you'll be able to do it this year, assuming good root growth. I've also had success putting newly separated layers under morning sun and mist when I think they don't have enough roots. Basically treating like a newly collected tree for the hottest parts of July and August.
However have found with personal tree these prone to mildew if kept damp(at least in a pot).
 

andrewiles

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Certainly a risk, yep. I use a setup that allows the leaves to dry briefly between mistings. It's mainly for collected material but the same issues apply. I don't know the horticultural science behind it but I think a wet-dry-wet cycle, rather than constantly wet, reduces mildew issues. And only for as long as needed.
 
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