Big Clump Amur (nursery find)

[CrisisM0de]

Found this guy yesterday and thought it might be a great candidate for chopping in the spring and going for a multi-trunk style, it is a pretty good diameter already. I just wanted to share because it seems to have been a good find for 20$ and I am curious what others would do with it. I have spent almost all of my research time on black pines since I began in August and I know deciduous is a whole different beast, so I will tackle more research between now and cutting time. There is a potential problem spot on the tree that I can identify right away:



This section I circled and crossed out seems to be a much thinner trunk that is trying to squeeze through. It looks like it fused to the right trunk but not the left and then died or was carved at by something on the back (or front) side. If it stays, then I am curious what that might do/look like over time. To remove it, I'd have to cut it out of that trunk it fused to and that seems like an aggressive move that may not look very nice.

 

[BobbyLane]

it looks like it could be a few trunks planted together, they dont appear to blend very well at this time...i would first want to see whats going on under the soil, i would probably uncover more of the base.

 

[thatguy]

$20 is a good price and I probably would not have been able to pass it up either. Waiting to make any decisions until you've uncovered more of the base might be wise. From what I've read and heard the wood of Amurs is very soft so rotting of trunks is common at old cut/injury sites like you're seeing. Can be a feature too! Makes them appear more aged and gnarly. That big root pointing straight out would be a candidate for removal too at some point/if it seems safe to do so. For $20 you can afford to play around a bit and be bold.

 

[sorce]

Seems to be a few good transitions in taper above too, I'd be on an extended layering mission while uncovering/regrowing an even base.

Sorce

 

[CrisisM0de]

@BobbyLane @thatguy I have noticed that the one side looks - to me - like a different tree altogether. It has been rainy here and so I haven't been outside to really look, but I will move some of that top soil around later today and see what is down there.

I am sort of curious what it might do if I cut everything down to just above where things look to be fused, but leave the thick forked trunk.

@sorce I think that's probably the plan being that it will just get tossed anyway. I think there are probably some great branches that could be used in a forest group. By regrowing an even base, do you mean to cut most of it quite low? Does the fact that the tree has already dropped its leaves mean some of this work could be started now?

 

[sorce]

regrowing an even base,

The more I look at it the more I want to remove that dead shit in the middle and seperate the 2 others. But it's fused up right? They look a little different the 2.

This is difficult material.

That lil dead guy isn't worth keeping, lotta harm, no good. I'd remove it before it further disfigures those lines, which will outline that negative space till it's filled.

Far as filling it, while the base evens out, with what may be a combination of natural Growth, maybe some root grafts, maybe one that threads through for some low branches later...blah blah.

I'd be in no hurry to get it done soon, probly taking your forest trees one a year, in a sequence that makes sense, maybe the smallest ones first, so they slow down, the larger ones later, so the base also assists their growth and development of initial branching before harvest. This could be spread over 3-20 years. Then the base is totally different.

In the meantime, hopefully you're able to get branches to sprout somewhere in proportion to where they need to be according to the thicknesses of your trunks, which may change.

I'd be looking to have second segments of all these already in place before cutting them back to final nice angled cuts. Around these nodes maybe?



I later realized the right splits , that whole left branch could be cut off.

The biggest problem then is finding space for branches to grow up and out, rather than straight out like those current couple. Or straight up like the trunks.

I'd put more focus on the layers for the forest, and haphazardly keep the bottom from getting ugly, but largely forgetting about it for at least 3 years.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

The Mother front and center, father right, kids left, but what are they....hiding the baby from the Communist Government and killing it in the process? Lol....but for real....

Minus the baby torture that could work.

Sorce

 

[Colorado]

I think that’s a good plan if you want a bunch of Amur maples.

If, however, you just want to work on this one, I would uncover the base in spring. Then determine where you need to cut back to, and chop it very low. The current trunks are not really very interesting, but can form a nice base with time. I’d definitely go way lower with the ones on the right than your sketch.

 

[CrisisM0de]

@Colorado I moved just some of the top soil around and found this... there seem to be some nice looking roots here, yes? This is what I would have thought was the front, although someone has suggested it is the back. There are no nice thick roots in the back unless they are further down yet and I am not going to dig.



@sorce It looks like it's fused all around. What would account for the variation in the color of the bark? Is the left section just younger and happened to fuse? Removing the little dead section in the middle means cutting into the mother slightly. Maybe cutting the mother down to just above that knuckle(?) would be preferable instead. I do like the idea of taking the forest trees one at a time, although I am surprised about spreading it out over such a long period. Can you explain what you mean by second segments? I think I thought I had something similar to this:



This is the newbie in me still I suppose. It is always different in my head, somehow.

 

[sorce]

I wouldn't be afraid to cut that crossing root right now. Just snip it above ground and leave the rest.

Looks way more promising there!

To get your next segment as left.

You should already have the branch (right)for the next segment about yeah thick before cutting back the trunk to it. This way you don't have to make 2 cuts, one perpendicular then one flush, you jump straight to flush and with the branch already present it heals before the perpendicular cut splits into unfixable.

All those skinny branches from that image you posted, they really don't stand a chance to heal those wounds cleanly. Of course, I'm ok with uros and holes, but they should be intentional.
That material, to me, is rushed for sale. Which is "ok", but it foolishly adds time onto the project.

In this way, greed ruins bonsai, we could be taking much greater strides.

Your material, should be worth more than what you posted. It is worth more. But, backwards world. Greed kills all!

Sorce

 

[CrisisM0de]

@sorce I just picked this up at a local tree nursery, they have several other amurs like this, but none that had this sort of 'largish' fused trunk going on. I'm fairly certain they think I am crazy there because I have been there several times digging around at the bases of their trees. They do have one other that is just a single trunk but it is curving up and is thicker yet. Maybe if the rain quits I'll make a quick run back over there. I am a bit confused about the process you are describing, sorry Are you saying to grow out the branches I want and then cut back to them as flush as possible? Are you referring to the commie children branches on the left not healing nicely? I am quite curious if there are nice roots hidden further down in the back as well, but it is probably unwise to dig now I suppose....

 

[sorce]

I'm gonna link you to a new thread.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

If you don't have "surface" roots in the back, you may get them by just keeping it buried, and watering shallow if you dare!

Horticultural VS Aesthetic Cuts.

I'd like to make this a part of our everyday bonsai vocabulary, the difference between an Aesthetic cut, and a Horticultural one. Stumbled across this while pondering the following for @CrisisM0de in regards to his Amur Clump. I hope to provoke an in depth conversation, with pictures, about...

www.bonsainut.com

Sorce