Big Crabapple collecting

Speedy

Yamadori
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Hi all. A landscaper I met recently is taking out a crabapple tomorrow and has offered it to me. I have not seen it yet, but his account it is, "...probably 12in or more at the flare." I have asked for a picture, but since it free I'm taking it anyway. Our agreement is to give him a piece of any profits IF I sell any. My question is, how short should we chop it, and how much of a rootball will I "safely" need? I assuming it it 20ish+ feet tall. And based on what I see around here, either straight and somewhat boring or gnarly from storm damage etc. Is it going to be a waste of time, is it "safe" to take something that size? They grow like weeds around here, and are waking up from winter right now. Not leafed out but buds are very close to bursting.

I have never collected anything that size before. I have plenty of space to put it in the ground for a couple years, plenty of lumber to make a box if needed. I am also not afraid to say not this time.
 

Shibui

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It is possible to collect trees this size. Possible does not always mean you should.
have you considered the logistics? A stump that size will weigh a lot. Assuming a machine to get it out of the ground but who is going to lift it into the pot. What sized pot/box will be needed? (I usually find I've underestimated the pots size required by 50-100% so allow for a bigger pot than anticipated)
How will anyone convert a stump this size into an attractive bonsai. It is possible but requires imagination and probably carving skills. Healing over a cut that size is probably not an option in anyone's current time frame.

Is the tree grafted? How high? Will it matter whether you only use the roostock if trunk chop is low enough to remove the grafted section.

I see most collectors leaving the trunk way too high. Although you can grow many different shaped bonsai a good average is 1/3 trunk, especially for straight vertical trunks so you can work back from there estimating the final height of a bonsai from the current trunk diameter.
Apples are generally pretty easy to transplant. If there are several good lateral roots I would reduce them all to around 6" or less (that will give a root diameter of 2' so pot size bugger than that) Any down growing roots cut back as close to the base as possible. Sounds harsh but it does work and all those roots will need to be cut back to those dimensions eventually anyway. far better to do it right at the start than to have to cut them again in a few years when the tree has established branches.

Just some thoughts. Maybe it is worth doing just for the experience? Maybe......
 

Zach Smith

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If "flare" means at the root crown, forget it! If "flare" means the visible surface root spread, go for it. That probably translates to a 3-4" trunk base above the root crown, very doable. I lifted an apple with a 4" base a couple of weeks ago. No biggie.
 

Mikecheck123

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Does not seem worth the effort if it's not a must-have specimen. Collecting big trees like that is always about twice as hard as you think it's gonna be, even when you keep this in mind. 😁
 

Speedy

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Thanks for your responses. You all touched on every one of my concerns. I'm hoping for the 4in or so. If it is too big I will have some wood for carving and grilling.
 

rockm

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A few years ago, I dug up a mature crabapple with a 18" diameter (ground level) trunk--by myself--in August...Mother in law asked me to get it out of her front yard and replace it with a redbud.

Removal Took three hours, a chainsaw, a lot of shoveling, prybars and cussing to get the trunk out--Before digging, I sawed off all the branches and shortened the trunk to four feet (extra length means extra leverage to get it free. Burned up the MIL's crummy electric chain saw on the biggest roots...

Thought it had some potential for bonsai--until I got the beast out of the ground. I had to remove all of its roots. The section of trunk weighed well over 100 lbs. After all that brutal reduction, I had no doubt it would survive and be able to regain growth...apples are extremely tough.

BUT the trunk had no taper and would have taken a decade or more to get into even reasonable shape for bonsai. Also, once I put it in a container of some sort, it would have weighed over 200 lbs with soil...Wouldn't be able to move it at all for most of that development time.

Careful what you wish for, sometimes you get it and its unmanageable. ;-)
 

Mikecheck123

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A few years ago, I dug up a mature crabapple with a 18" diameter (ground level) trunk--by myself--in August...Mother in law asked me to get it out of her front yard and replace it with a redbud.

Removal Took three hours, a chainsaw, a lot of shoveling, prybars and cussing to get the trunk out--Before digging, I sawed off all the branches and shortened the trunk to four feet (extra length means extra leverage to get it free. Burned up the MIL's crummy electric chain saw on the biggest roots...

Thought it had some potential for bonsai--until I got the beast out of the ground. I had to remove all of its roots. The section of trunk weighed well over 100 lbs. After all that brutal reduction, I had no doubt it would survive and be able to regain growth...apples are extremely tough.

BUT the trunk had no taper and would have taken a decade or more to get into even reasonable shape for bonsai. Also, once I put it in a container of some sort, it would have weighed over 200 lbs with soil...Wouldn't be able to move it at all for most of that development time.

Careful what you wish for, sometimes you get it and its unmanageable. ;-)
Wow. That one hits a little too close to home. I've also found it very difficult to determine how big a tree is from full-perspective Craigslist photos. Whatever you think the diameter is, double it. :)
 

rockm

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Wow. That one hits a little too close to home. I've also found it very difficult to determine how big a tree is from full-perspective Craigslist photos. Whatever you think the diameter is, double it. :)
Remember, diameter is the width ACROSS the trunk, not the distance around...
 

Shibui

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A few years ago, I dug up a mature crabapple with a 18" diameter (ground level) trunk--by myself--in August...Mother in law asked me to get it out of her front yard and replace it with a redbud.

Removal Took three hours, a chainsaw, a lot of shoveling, prybars and cussing to get the trunk out--Before digging, I sawed off all the branches and shortened the trunk to four feet (extra length means extra leverage to get it free. Burned up the MIL's crummy electric chain saw on the biggest roots...

Thought it had some potential for bonsai--until I got the beast out of the ground. I had to remove all of its roots. The section of trunk weighed well over 100 lbs. After all that brutal reduction, I had no doubt it would survive and be able to regain growth...apples are extremely tough.

BUT the trunk had no taper and would have taken a decade or more to get into even reasonable shape for bonsai. Also, once I put it in a container of some sort, it would have weighed over 200 lbs with soil...Wouldn't be able to move it at all for most of that development time.

Careful what you wish for, sometimes you get it and its unmanageable. ;-)
Totally agree. I've had very similar experiences with trees I've tackled over here. They seem to expand as you remove soil from around the roots o_O

Wow. That one hits a little too close to home. I've also found it very difficult to determine how big a tree is from full-perspective Craigslist photos. Whatever you think the diameter is, double it. :)
This sounds like a very good rule of thumb for estimating possible collection tree size.

Add to that: Double the size of the box or pot you think will be right size.

And: Collected trunks look 1/2 as good after you get them home.
 

rockm

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Wow. That one hits a little too close to home. I've also found it very difficult to determine how big a tree is from full-perspective Craigslist photos. Whatever you think the diameter is, double it. :)
BTW, if you're digging a big tree like that and you're doing it in a retirement community, some advice--dig at night.

If the neighbors see you in the daytime, they will come over and ask you to remove THEIR huge ass crabapple for $50... Happened TWICE while I was cussing that first tree out of the ground...At night, there's a lot less hot sunshine...;-)
 

sorce

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I have some already. Why pass up on 15+ years of work if it was viable?

Reckon it's not the passing up 15 years of growth we may argue, but the viability.

Nothing is as viable as intention.

Your intention!

Sorce
 

Speedy

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Exactly why I asked Sorce. Why take it if it isn't worth it.

My intentions are create beautiful trees, not to torture them to a long slow death.
 
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