Big Pile of Mistakes

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This was the second tree I collected when I first started to try to learn bonsai in the spring of 2020. I have learned a lot since but boy has this tree paid the price for my learning curve.

First: poor species to choose (red maple)
Second: not much flare at the base
Third: no taper in trunk
Fourth: for varying (noob) reasons I have removed branches from the trunk
Fifth: I let branches get too long before trimming
Sixth: probably about a dozen other things I haven't learned yet
But I absolutely love every opportunity to learn about this great hobby. Thanks to everyone who posts and answers. Bonsai Nut is by far the best single place I have found to learn from.
 

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sorce

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I'm out in the sun and that pic is that pic but it doesn't look all lost to me.

Sorce
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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All of these mistakes can be recovered from, the question is, can you let it grow for 12 to 24 months without cutting anything off? Patience grasshopper.

It doesn't look all that bad, just leave it alone, take photos in winter after leaf drop. Post here, in this thread. You can use this thread to plan the spring or early summer pruning 2023.
 

crab apple

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I'm curious to know about #5, letting branches get too long. I've got stuff I collected that's growing like crazy and it seems the most advice I get is to just keep letting it grow, at what point do you know that it's time to cut branches?
 
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All of these mistakes can be recovered from, the question is, can you let it grow for 12 to 24 months without cutting anything off? Patience grasshopper.

It doesn't look all that bad, just leave it alone, take photos in winter after leaf drop. Post here, in this thread. You can use this thread to plan the spring or early summer pruning 2023.
Thank you Leo in N E Illinois. I am done hacking on it for the summer. I have never had any direction for it until now. I think I am going to try to do a Windswept with it. I'll post some pics after leaf drop.
 
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I'm curious to know about #5, letting branches get too long. I've got stuff I collected that's growing like crazy and it seems the most advice I get is to just keep letting it grow, at what point do you know that it's time to cut branches?
Crab apple, I'm still trying to figure that out myself. Do something, see what happens, remember if something good happens or bad happens and then apply. Mistakes happen. Just keep reading people's posts.
 

GGB

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I actually like the tree too, shame that you removed some lower branches. Maybe a thread graft in the future once you have a little more experience.
 

0soyoung

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I actually like the tree too, shame that you removed some lower branches. Maybe a thread graft in the future once you have a little more experience.
Why wait?

You need to produce a long branch/shoot this season, @bonsailevel:master - one long enough to bend around to cross the trunk, and you'll wire it into this position right after leaf drop this fall. Then, next spring you can pass it through a hole you just drilled through the trunk and then wedge it securely to the top of that hole and seal it with some kind of putty and then wait through most of next year's growing season to have the beginnings of your branch back. And then, and then, and then, ...

Then who cares what the error count is PROVIDED you've learned how to do something you previously couldn't?! 🤓
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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This was the second tree I collected when I first started to try to learn bonsai in the spring of 2020. I have learned a lot since but boy has this tree paid the price for my learning curve.

First: poor species to choose (red maple)
Second: not much flare at the base
Third: no taper in trunk
Fourth: for varying (noob) reasons I have removed branches from the trunk
Fifth: I let branches get too long before trimming
Sixth: probably about a dozen other things I haven't learned yet
But I absolutely love every opportunity to learn about this great hobby. Thanks to everyone who posts and answers. Bonsai Nut is by far the best single place I have found to learn from.

Some comments to help

Item 1 - species choice - nothing wrong with Acer rubrum, but for your next attempt, if you want a maple, there are better species, that respond to bonsai techniques more predictably and more rapidly. And there are worse species. Acer rubrum, red maple is poor for bonsai, but better than most North American native maples. The maples that are "good" for bonsai are all in the Acer palmatum group. Acer circinatum is probably the only native North American maple species in the Palmata section of the genus (with the Japanese maple Acer palmata) There are a couple species closely related to Acer palmatum that are also used like Acer japonicum, sieboldianum and pseudosieboldianum. Acer palmatum is hands down the best Acer species for bonsai for its autumn color.

Other maples that are choice for bonsai include the trident maple, Acer buergerianum, the Amur maple Acer tataricum, and or Acer ginnala, Field maple Acer campbellii.

There might be one or two more that get used occasionally but really the Trident maple, the Amur maple and the Japanese maple, Acer palmatum, are the 3 best that get used most for bonsai. At least among the maples.

Maples are chosen because most have good spring and good autumn leaf color, especially autumn leaf color.

Getting away from maples, easy deciduous trees for bonsai, probably the best is the Chinese elm. Though most elms, genus Ulmus, work quite well for bonsai. As tropical indoor trees, genus Ficus, can't go wrong there.

Item 2 - flair at the base - the short hand term is "nebari", this covers the flair from the widening of the base of the trunk out to the surface roots until they disappear under the soil. This to a large degree can be developed in most trees over time. Essential is a wide shallow pot. Roots near the surface are KEPT BURIED by soil for as many years as necessary to develop large enough to have real bark on them roots under the surface of the soil. Depending on the size of the trees these roots should approach similar diameters as the branches above BEFORE you expose them to the air. Expose the surface roots too soon in a "pre-bonsai" tree's life and the surface roots will die. Then instead of a nebari shaped like a wagon wheel, with radial roots like spokes from a hub, you will end up with eagle claw roots, where the roots all curve down and hook under the tree and look ugly and unstable. A good nebari takes time, should not be rushed, and should not be exposed until a tree has had many years of training. I would not expose the roots of the maple in the photo for another 10 years or so. Key is keeping it in a shallow pot, less than 3 inches or 7.5 cm depth, the pot should be wide, Typically I would use an Anderson flat which is 17 x17 x 5 inches deep, and only put 3 inches of media in the flat. Use this for your tree for training. Or a larger in width, but not necessarily depth to size up your tree.

3. Taper - this is only a design problem. You removed the lower branches, This means you are no longer styling it as an informal upright. For an informal broom style and a more formal broom style, trunk taper is not an issue. Informal broom your trunk branches to 2 sub-trunks, then 4 then 8 then 16 sub-trunks in the middle third of the tree's height. This often results in a wine glass shape profile, the trunks arching up and out, common with maples and elms as urban street trees. The "formal broom" the trunk abruptly transitions to multiple sub-trunks at a single point, as seen in some elms and zelkova. Not a common look for maples.

4 - see above - we can work with what you got - just let it grow for now.

5 - common noob mistake is to trim branches too often and too short. Trees in training are often allowed to grow wildly to allow branches and trunks to increase in diameter. It might be reasonable to let a branch grow to 5 feet long over a couple years, then trim it back to just an inch or two. Keeping everything pruned "tight" or "short" does not allow growth, without growth, there is nothing to style, nothing improves, tree eventually weakens and dies. You need episodes of growth to improve the strength of the tree, and an episode of growth is more than a month or two, we are talking a growing season or two without pruning to develop strength. But individual plans for specific trees will vary. Some get pruned more often than other.

6 - so kick back, collect feed back. Favorite past time while waiting for trees to grow out is to take photos and then using Paint or other photo editing programs, draw out future possibilities on photos of your starting material. Make plants for future years, Like what you'll do in 2023, 2024 and 2025 for this tree. It is reasonable to plan about 3 years ahead for most trees. Plans to do this, then that followed by sumthin else. Think in 3 or more year sequences. Give tree time inbetween to respond and recover.

Just a few thoughts for you and any newbie reading this in general
 

Orion_metalhead

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I like it. Just needs time. Good find. Lots of character on the trunk.
 
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Wow Leo from Illinois that's alot to chew on. Thank you so much for your input. I'm sure that was very time consuming on your part and much appreciated on my part. Answer others will be able to benefit from your insight.
 

GGB

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So much personality, don't you dare give up on this tree. Unless youre giving it to me.
 

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Wow a very good material you have there, take your time for inspiration 👌
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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..... a little progress 🤪

See, allowing it to grow has given you so many more branches, and branch lengths to choose from. Excellent, there are several directions you can go, including letting it grow a second year LOL. Spring or early summer will be time to decide.
 

dbonsaiw

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Love the thread title. I literally have a pile of mistakes (aka dead trees) on the side of my yard that I've been too lazy to clean up. I made a lot of mistakes and it's an impressive pile.
 
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