Biochar - time to test or give it a rest? Trials

[Deep Sea Diver]

Wondering the pluses and minuses of moving this discussion to @sorce thread…. Will wait on that decision. Staying here for the moment…

So ok, I’ve rootwashed over 70 trees, azaleas and maples, this spring and am working into the backstretch. Perhaps 15- 20 3-4 year old azaleas to go. With all that amount of water going my brain is running amok. (And I seem to need more bathroom breaks! ).

Lately my thoughts have been circling the drain on Biochar…. Pluses and minuses. These are pretty well laid out in the most recent comprehensive scientific Biochar literature review. Here’s what I’m thinking…..

Biochar isn’t a miracle additive and I’m a pondering about three potential risk factors and one very minor concern.

First the potential to clog up a media faster then normal with the Biochar particles . Yet if it works the root growth may clog up the works faster anyways, necessitating repotting.

Second, Improved growth. A double edged sword. Good for establishing primary structure and initial stages of development. Maybe not so good for refinement…. Or maybe the effect is just continued overall good health in refinement, more robust… or not...

Third - Dosage. Perhaps this should actually be the first! Anyways no dosage has been set for trees that I can find, let alone bonsai. I merely interpolated from the manufacturers garden recommendations. A bit scary, at least on the surface. Hence my trials. I wrote the Wakefield Biochar folks for advice… we shall see if they come through.

Minor concern - possiblity of needing more pesticide, if needed. Biochar has been reported to absorb pesticides to some extent. Not worrying about H2O2 of course, but imidiploprid which is used sparingly after flowering against lacebugs. It’s a neonicotide and I don’t want to up my dosage.

btw: More azaleas out to play in the wide open spaces as of yesterday... more to come



cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Final batch of azalea rootwashes.. about 25 more 3-7 year olds done. Theres about 20 controls along with those from the previous years that also do not have Biochar on them. All are out to play now, even the little second year cuttings.



As a side note, here’s a comparison between this years 2nd year azalea whips and the 3rd year whips.



cheers
DSD sends

 

[LAS]

Earthshine Biochar Blend

At GreenGro, our mission is to a product that is easy to use and creates amazing results. We strive to sell the best organic and sustainable, all-in-one soil.

www.thegreengro.com

this is the product i use and im very happy with it. I literally use 1 tbsp in a gallon of substrate

 

[Rivian]

If you have that many azalea cuttings, why not sift biochar to a good size so you can use larger amounts or even pure on some plants? Perhaps allowing one initial application of a soil acidifier.
Im still curious how things in your current setup will go though

 

[ChristianDGreat]

@Deep Sea Diver
Any update into your test?
Would love to see the result

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

It’s a New year now and time to reevaluate this effort. Thank you so much for your interest!

On with the show. First….a couple quick replies.

If you have that many azalea cuttings, why not sift biochar to a good size so you can use larger amounts or even pure on some plants? Perhaps allowing one initial application of a soil acidifier.
Im still curious how things in your current setup will go though

Biochar has historically been used as a soil additive, not as a media. As far as the percentage of the additive goes, Wakefield recommended up to 10%, which is what @bonhe has been using.

Recently I listened to Karen O’Hanlon on a Bonsai Asmmetry podcast. Karen is advocating 5% of Biochar. She has also gotten feedback that small particle size of Biochar is an issue…more on that below.

In short, at these levels of Biochar while using a predominantly Kanuma based media, pH isn’t much of an issue.

@Deep Sea Diver
Any update into your test? Would love to see the result …

All the azaleas, test or control are all healthy and doing extremely well. See below.




….Yet there are some nagging issues about the initial experimental design and other facts that are indicating a rethink/reset is needed.

Why is that? (… in very rough order of priority…)

Experimental design issues.

1. Particle Size - The Wakefield Biochar used has a very small particle size. This didn’t clog up the media, yet initially it appeared to wash out to some extent when washing the Kanuma. This led me to wash the Kanuma, then add biochar in to the top area of the pot and rinse gently. Visually, before adding Mountain moss to the surface last summer some biochar still remained visible.

Yet there is the nagging feeling that the actual size of the particles interfering with the O2 exchange capacity of the original media might mask some or all of any positive effect. Also that the majority of particles might have flushed out over time.

Potential Solution: The solution to this issue is to source Biochar with a larger particle size, closer to the mix. Not an easy task. I recently sourced Biochar from Buildasoil.com. This had higher particle size, yet still small…. In the 1/16+ range once the dust is sifted out.


I also ordered Biochar from Karen O’Hanlon at ProBiocarbon to see if her product has a bigger particle size. . It’s the same product Peter Warren has been testing, initially to good effect.

Note: Karen told me yesterday she is on the verge of securing a US distribute! Be on the look out for Probio Carbon Danu and Biochar products appearing this spring.

2. Use of azaleas of different sources and cultivars, “n” value. Even though we have lots of azaleas, there was a limit to matching source, cultivar and “n” values. These are flaws.

First and foremost, even though there were some identical cultivars in both the control and experimental groups, not all were matched and the test subjects came from at least four different growers.

Source. One would think a cultivar from one grower would be the same as an identical cultivar from another grower. Likely genetically not. Does this make a difference in growth, health etc? Quite possible.

Care: the initial horticultural care by a grower can have a lasting effect, as Karen O’Hamlin pointed out in the Asemmetry podcast. Why is that? Because the original endofungi for a plant is fixed from the start and can’t be supplemented. Only the endo bacteria can. As the azaleas were sourced from growers who use a different nursery media, fertilizers etc and are from all over the US from NH to CA its likely this is an issue.

These may be niggling items, yet important.

3. N value - there wasn’t enough stock to match groups with a high enough “n” to be meaningful. This is a big deal.

Solution(s). It happens I have a large number of whips grown 2 years ago of many different cultivars. (Too many…I’ve got to sell some of these off to get more space!). There are 10 whips each for some cultivars.



This would bring the”n” to 5 for each trial. Still not great, but better then 1. Using whips for the reset trials seems a satisfactory solution.

4. How to measure / compare azaleas?

Use of nursery azaleas (also different suppliers) makes it very difficult to compare growth without destructive measures. Using whips can simplify this issue.

5. Can the samples be used for bonsai at the same time? This is a very important question. It’s hard enough to dedicate space to a long term experiment, let alone to watch a large herd of prebonsai grow steadily out of design. As one can see from the images of the initial experiment test subjects, all were trimmed near the end of the season. (Not many flowers this year!)

However trimming samples is detrimental, delaying growth. Use of whips is a better solution, at least for a couple years. So change of test subjects!

….And that’s my New Years update folks!

More on this thread later.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[ChristianDGreat]

Thank you very much for this update, very informative.
I'm kinda inspired with this post and will do the same test, but in my case I will use JBP.
I will use Biochar DG From anderson and will add DANU from Karen.
Thanks for the update!, looking forward to the future test result.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thank you very much for this update, very informative.

You are most welcome!

I'm kinda inspired with this post and will do the same test, but in my case I will use JBP.
I will use Biochar DG From anderson and will add DANU from Karen.

Great! What’s the particle size?

Also Karen O mentions her recommended use rate of Danu on the latest BM Asymmetry podcast. Please check it out it you haven’t already. It’s very useful Information

cheers
DSD sends

 

[andrewiles]

Love threads like this. Thanks sharing what you've learned Hoping to see further results with the larger particle sizes.

Not worth its own thread so I'll briefly mention here I've been building some experiements as well. Still in the very early stages and waiting mainly for enough material to work with. For some of our more moisture tolerant local species I'm curious how far can I go in the direction of an inorganic substrate, low CEC, low water holding capacity, neutral pH w/low bufering capacity, etc. Instead, focus on providing necessary nutrients via a much more frequent automated fertigation program. Focus on constant delivery of ready-use nutrients and water rather than holding capacity and biological fixation. Something closer to what's commonly done in the produce amd flower industries. Some benefits, like complete and instantaneous control over nutrients. And some downsides, like very little room for error. Anyways, when I'm far enough along to share something in the spirit of this thread. Good stuff.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm soaking charcoal in humic and fulvic acids to make them a slow release vessel.
I think we should use the matrix in charcoal to our benefit, put stuff in there we don't want washed out.

 

[ChristianDGreat]

You are most welcome!

Great! What’s the particle size?

Also Karen O mentions her recommended use rate of Danu on the latest BM Asymmetry podcast. Please check it out it you haven’t already. It’s very useful Information

cheers
DSD sends

I listen to the Podcast and its amazing, lots of gem dropped in those chat with Karen and Ryan.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Driftwood]

Good thread. I bought the probio carbon and probio carbon danu and I am testing it out on a few different varieties of deciduous trees. I agree with applying it to the top the soil. I'll post an update as the season progresses.

Hi, could you comment about your first year using Danu? When,how, etc..

 

[Michael P]

Re particle size, this year I am crushing my homemade biochar, then sieving it to match the particle size of the mix. Previously my problem was biochar particles that were much too large. I aim for about 10%, the research seems to agree that 10% to 20% is optimal for potted woody plants. The recommendation is for general nursery stock, not bonsai.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Given one uses a decent particle size, more than 10% would work. I’ve seen others use more charcoal, including Dave Degroot, who recent stated he used a 4:2:1 media blend of Pumice : Akadama : Hort. Charcoal (14.3%).

Note I haven’t seen a clear manufacturer’s distinction between Hort. Charcoal and Biochar yet… something Karen O’Hanlon lamented about In the B Mirai podcast.

So far it appears the very best times to add Biochar would be repotting and when adding new media when finished doing soji. (removal and replacement of upper decomposed layer of media)... also if one slip pots. Supplementing Biochar at other times does not seem efficient.

btw. Haven’t seen any specific scientific research of Biochar used for bonsai, not saying it’s not there, likely is now given the practitioners using it in Europe. Historically, the limits of the major research has been based on money crops, including forestry. Would you mind posting your references here for others to use if you run into some?

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Michael P]

The first two links are USDA Forest Service webinars, only partially useful. The last link is a 70 page handbook published in Sweden. I have not read all of it yet, but it is better than the webinars. Note: none of these are bonsai specific at all.

Establishing trees and other native plants using biochar — The Webinar Portal

The US Forest Service in partnership with the US Biochar Initiative and the Southern Regional Extension Forestry will be presenting its latest Biochar Webinar titled: "Establishing trees and other native plants using biochar". This live webinar will be held January, 31 2023 from 11 to 12 pm...

forestrywebinars.net

Biochar in Urban Vegetated Applications — The Webinar Portal

The US Forest Service in partnership with the US Biochar Initiative and the Southern Regional Extension Forestry will be presenting its latest Biochar Webinar titled: "Biochar in Urban Vegetated Applications". This live webinar will be held April 27, 2023 from 11 to 12 pm Eastern time.

forestrywebinars.net

The Biochar Handbook - for users

Biokol som lösning och produkt i det cirkulära och klimatpositiva samhället.

biokol.org

 

[BobbyLane]

Kaizen bonsai now use bio char in their ready made mixes, I bought a bag the other day and potted two trees in it and now my trees are twice the size they were before using it
Ive ordered 50 more bags.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I listen to the Podcast and its amazing, lots of gem dropped in those chat with Karen and Ryan.

Thanks
Chris

I listened to that podcast after friends across the pond spoke highly of her product. I actually placed an order and am using it and the initial liquid as well at the beginning of the year. As my friends use both products and have seen positives in the use.