Bitcoin

[Bonsai Nut]

The funny thing is that when you really look at it, the tech isn't all that ground-shattering, and it doesn't offer much in the way of benefits versus traditional payment systems - as long as you are involved in legal commerce. At the bottom of it all it's a peer-to-peer payment system that is secured by a public ledger and maintained by public computers. Ask one of your "crypto" experts what the advantage of bitcoin is, over my sending you $50 via PayPal friends and family (for no transaction fee)? And ask him to explain who exactly he is "making money" off of - if it isn't other "cryptoids" who are just entering the party after he did? He certainly isn't making money off of me, LOL. Call it a Ponzi scheme or Financial musical chairs, but until you cash out and pay taxes on your gains you haven't made a penny (literally). I don't want to hear about paper profits in some virtual electronic wallet.

I will tell you this much - if I have money in a PayPal account, I don't have to worry about it losing 50% of its value overnight.

Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, the twin brothers who became billionaires after the run-up in the price of Bitcoin and other digital assets toward the end of last year, have seen their fortunes drop 37 percent in the past month as the cryptocurrency plunged. Bitcoin dipped below $10,000 Wednesday, extending a rout that has sliced $443 million from the net worth of each brother, leaving them with $739 million apiece, at least on paper, according to the Bloomberg Billionaire Index.

Wow. $886 million dollar LOSS. Bet that stings Particularly if all that money ends up in the pockets of Russian hackers or Chinese organized crime rings

 

[AlainK]

Wow. $886 million dollar LOSS. Bet that stings Particularly if all that money ends up in the pockets of Russian hackers or Chinese organized crime rings

"Money is the root of all evil"...

 

[leatherback]

$886 million dollar LOSS.

Only if you assume that all these tokens were actually worth that sort of money. As said before.. If you drop 10% of the coins on the market the market collapses. Just saying, in my view we have 20 million coins, and the last 1000 sold at 20K$ does not mean you have 40B$ of value.

Ah well. Cute speculation game. Better than betting on horses I supose

 

[AlainK]

Better than betting on horses I supose

You mean betting on money-laundering from tax-evasion, prostitution, hard drugs smuggling, bribery, etc. ?...

That's why I don't believe in any god any longer, but greed, what some would call the devil is definitely ruling our world.

Greed.

The uncut version has been called the "holy grail" for film archivists, amid repeated false claims of the discovery of the missing footage.

McTeague, by Frank Norris is a major novel of the US literature. It's not only about the "American Dream", it's about...

Well, read it if you haven't...

 

[Eric Group]

I just talked to one of my friends from high school yesterday. He bought $15 worth of bitcoin then. He has since used the money to pay for his car, rent, and college expenses.

That is a cool story!
I hope nobody here put any money into Bitcoin recently!

 

[leatherback]

I hope nobody here put any money into Bitcoin recently!

Back in Ether trackers yesterday for a few hours. Grabbed 15% profit by days end. INSANE.

 

[Eric Group]

Back in Ether trackers yesterday for a few hours. Grabbed 15% profit by days end. INSANE.

Speculation works great... until it doesn’t.

Investing WORKS.

 

[Vance Wood]

The higher the risk the higher the return if it works and the loss???____could be catastrophic.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Speculation works great... until it doesn’t.

Investing WORKS.

Couldn't agree more. I took an international finance class in graduate school where we learned how to trade foreign currencies. Afterwards, I used to trade currencies on the market with my own "real" money. I knew people who would speculate in foreign currencies - and yeah they could get lucky in the short term and make some money. But in the long term they were all gone - because when the market would move against them they were the ones with the open, unprotected positions who were left hanging in the wind. As far as I'm concerned, it's like the people who go to Vegas and talk about their one winning poker hand.

Any time I invest in a company or idea it has to meet these criteria:
(1) Is the idea unique - is it meaningfully different from what already exists?
(2) Does it involve proprietary ideas or technology?
(3) Are there significant barriers for competitive entry into the marketplace?

In the case of Tesla, I would argue the answer to all of these questions (at the time of their IPO) was yes. In the case of BitCoin, the answer to all three questions is NO. If I wanted to, I could create my own cryptocurrency overnight. I'd call in "BonsaiBucks". Wonder how many suckers I could get to trade their real currency (backed by the world's largest economies) into empty "BonsaiBucks"? Hey - it's the best way to keep your spouse from knowing how much you spend on bonsai every year!

BitCoin is by its very definition an asset bubble. There is no underlying value in the "asset". Its worth is based wholly on emotion / speculative demand. Small changes in demand equate to huge swings in market price. Speculators represent a greater percentage of asset owners than users of the asset.

Worst of all - many people who use the product are using it to conduct illegal business, or to try to hide taxable income from the authorities. They don't understand that BitCoin is like hunting groundhogs. You don't have to know where they are or what they are doing when they are underground. You just have to be there when they pop out. BitCoin is valueless until exchanged into another currency, or used to purchase a good or service. The moment you are back in the real world - the authorities have you.

By the way - many people don't even know that the name "BitCoin" isn't even a protected trademark. It is, for all intents and purposes, public domain. Hence the success of "BitCoin Cash" which isn't even directly related to BitCoin. Want to confuse even more sheep? Launch your own cryptocurrency called "BitCoin GOLD" and suggest it is in some way better than the original BitCoin. The lemmings will come...

 

[CasAH]

Couldn't agree more. I took an international finance class in graduate school where we learned how to trade foreign currencies. Afterwards, I used to trade currencies on the market with my own "real" money. I knew people who would speculate in foreign currencies - and yeah they could get lucky in the short term and make some money. But in the long term they were all gone - because when the market would move against them they were the ones with the open, unprotected positions who were left hanging in the wind. As far as I'm concerned, it's like the people who go to Vegas and talk about their one winning poker hand.

Any time I invest in a company or idea it has to meet these criteria:
(1) Is the idea unique - is it meaningfully different from what already exists?
(2) Does it involve proprietary ideas or technology?
(3) Are there significant barriers for competitive entry into the marketplace?

In the case of Tesla, I would argue the answer to all of these questions (at the time of their IPO) was yes. In the case of BitCoin, the answer to all three questions is NO. If I wanted to, I could create my own cryptocurrency overnight. I'd call in "BonsaiBucks". Wonder how many suckers I could get to trade their real currency (backed by the world's largest economies) into empty "BonsaiBucks"? Hey - it's the best way to keep your spouse from knowing how much you spend on bonsai every year!

BitCoin is by its very definition an asset bubble. There is no underlying value in the "asset". Its worth is based wholly on emotion / speculative demand. Small changes in demand equate to huge swings in market price. Speculators represent a greater percentage of asset owners than users of the asset.

Worst of all - many people who use the product are using it to conduct illegal business, or to try to hide taxable income from the authorities. They don't understand that BitCoin is like hunting groundhogs. You don't have to know where they are or what they are doing when they are underground. You just have to be there when they pop out. BitCoin is valueless until exchanged into another currency, or used to purchase a good or service. The moment you are back in the real world - the authorities have you.

By the way - many people don't even know that the name "BitCoin" isn't even a protected trademark. It is, for all intents and purposes, public domain. Hence the success of "BitCoin Cash" which isn't even directly related to BitCoin. Want to confuse even more sheep? Launch your own cryptocurrency called "BitCoin GOLD" and suggest it is in some way better than the original BitCoin. The lemmings will come...

One more key for me is do I have a basic understanding of what the company does?

I will not invest in anything that I do not understand on how it is valued, and will create future value. Bitcoin is just a Ponzzi scheme, Tesla is advancing battery technology and selling electric cars. The battery tech has many uses beyond electric cars, offering possible new avenues for revenues.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If greed is infinite, then 1% of greed is a LOT of money...

Coinbase, a private company, is the largest bitcoin exchange in the world. It doesn't hold bitcoin inventory but processes trades/transactions, while charging a 1% transaction fee. Last year it is reported that it generated $1 billion in revenue.

Like the 1849 Gold Rush, it appears the people selling the shovels are the ones set to make all the risk-free money. Doesn't matter whether YOU make or lose anything... they always get their fee

 

[Vance Wood]

Test

I think your upgrades are working well. You know me, if something is not working I will eventually run accros it, and then raise hell, metaphorically.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think your upgrades are working well. You k now me if something is not working I will eventually run accros it, and then raise hell, metaphorically.

My "test" in the above message is because the Tea House threads are not supposed to be showing up in the "new posts" listings... and yet they still are. I have actually reported it as a bug to the software developers...

 

[leatherback]

the Tea House threads are not supposed to be showing up in the "new posts" listings

Why not?

 

[barrosinc]

Why not?

Please don't take that away!! I only use new posts

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Please don't take that away!! I only use new posts

In BN2.0 we specifically blocked the Tea House posts from showing up in "New Posts" so that if you wanted to hang out in the site and not see "Donald Trump / Biden" threads you didn't have to

I appreciate the serenity of the majority of the site being bonsai happiness and comradery. If we want to cross into the dark side of the Tea House... we know where to find it

 

[Potawatomi13]

Bitcoin like Ford and MANY others has been down and rebounded even more. When down is greatest time to buy!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Bitcoin like Ford and MANY others has been down and rebounded even more. When down is greatest time to buy!

For what reason? What worth does it have that I cannot replicate elsewhere - without the risk?

Ford makes cars. Bitcoin allows me to send money to people(?) And that is an earth-shatteringly new idea worth tens of thousands of dollars?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Woopsie...

Coincheck Confirms Crypto Hack Loss Larger than Mt Gox

$553 million stolen.

 

[Vance Wood]

Woopsie...

Coincheck Confirms Crypto Hack Loss Larger than Mt Gox

$553 million stolen.

I hate to say I told you so but------------------If you want to continue to play in this park now you see what it could get you.