Bjorn’s Single Flush Pine technique explained!

[Adair M]

Are you kidding? You want ME to explain this? No, Bjorn does it just fine! Have a watch:

I will add:

One thing he did not mention is the possibility of there being pollen cones at the base of the strongest candles. If you’re not careful, it’s possible to mistake them for needles, and when pinching back, remove all the needles, leaving only the pollen cones! (Ask me how I know!). If you do this, don’t fret, when I did it, the tree later backbudded with new shoots where the pollen cones were. At least it did for my Zuisho.

Anyway, here’s a picture of a candles that I’ve already pinched back, but you can see the pollen cones at the base. They’re round, and a little tan. The needles are pointy, and green:

 

[Vance Wood]

Just so people will know, I use a different technique I have used for at least twenty years ---and it is not this. I have detailed it in the past, many of you have read it an tried it with success. I will not repeat it again because I know what will happen ala pinching principals.

 

[sorce]

I don't understand the need to remove so much energy production.

Seems quite counterproductive.

Of course, maybe being close to dead is what helps em sleep down south!

Sorce

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I don't understand the need to remove so much energy production.

Seems quite counterproductive.

Of course, maybe being close to dead is what helps em sleep down south!

Sorce

Isnt the point to keep a tree in refinement, refined? Like if he was growing out and developing the tree, he would leave more candles at longer lengths to build energy, but because the tree is in late refinement stage he is cutting the energy to reduce leggy growth.

Disclaimer - I know very little about pine refinement but that seems to be the basic premises I've picked up while reading. Young pines grow wild and free, medium pines get selective energy redirection and old refined pines get energy reduction to stay refined.

 

[sorce]

Isnt the point to keep a tree in refinement, refined?

That's my "problem #2" with this video...
It's not explaining the results of this action, just the action, which for me, isn't an explanation, it's an instruction.

Which leads to the real problem....#3.

The results of this, as imagined by what happens, isn't as visually pleasing for keeping a refined tree in refinement as it could be IMO.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

I don't understand the need to remove so much energy production.

Seems quite counterproductive.

Of course, maybe being close to dead is what helps em sleep down south!

Sorce

Does that tree look “close to dead”?

Uh, Sorce?? We’re doing bonsai. Bonsai are “small trees”. If we don’t do something to restrict their growth, they’re going to grow into “big trees”. And then it won’t be a bonsai any more.

Bjorn’s tree is no longer in the “growth” stage, it’s beginning refinement.

The final image he created, where he removed a lot of branches, opens up the tree. This allows sunlight into the interior of the canopy, which keeps the interior foliage alive. Before, with the rather solid, dense canopy, the interior was starting to get shaded out. All the interior foliage would die. It would become like all the commercial Mugo pines are: balls of exterior foliage, but bare inside. That takes a decade to fix! (Just ask Vance.)

Keeping bonsai long term is all about managing energy. Directing that energy to keep the entire tree strong, and viable for the long term. Long term meaning decades.

 

[sorce]

Does that tree look “close to dead”?

No, and though that was clearly a joke....

It hasn't been down there long.

restrict their growth

There are good and bad ways to do this.

This is bad. IMO and E.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

That's my "problem #2" with this video...
It's not explaining the results of this action, just the action, which for me, isn't an explanation, it's an instruction.

Which leads to the real problem....#3.

The results of this, as imagined by what happens, isn't as visually pleasing for keeping a refined tree in refinement as it could be IMO.

Sorce

It appears to me that Bjorn just published this video, and tried to do it in a timely manner. That is, during the spring when others can watch it, and pinch their pines.
In a few months, he might post up another video showing the results. The tIme to wire single flush pines is late summer/early fall, so maybe he will make a follow up video then.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

That's my "problem #2" with this video...
It's not explaining the results of this action, just the action, which for me, isn't an explanation, it's an instruction.

I see your point on this one - though as Adair says later that Bjorn looks to have been trying to get this video out in a seasonally appropriate time. Now, I love Bjorn's videos, but if someone with a very undeveloped single flush pine watched and followed, they might have a tree with the wrong energy on their hands as you suspect. I find that a lot of the big name bonsai guys do videos on trees that the average hobbyist might not find in their garden.

Of course they don't know what you don't know, for example is someone told me they "play guitar" and that's all I know, I might be like ok lets jam over a standard I iv V IV progression in C and then wonder why they're playing the A with a major 3rd in there. After some discussion, come to find out they don't know what I'm talking about so I break it down into "Play 2 bars of C, 2 bars of Am, 2 bars of G and 2 bars of F over and over again." If they don't get that part of it, I suggest they take some more lessons.

 

[Adair M]

No, and though that was clearly a joke....

It hasn't been down there long.




There are good and bad ways to do this.

This is bad. IMO and E.

Sorce

In “your opinion”, and “your experience”? Right? I don’t want to be accused of misinterpreting your post.

Well, Bjorn’s method is exactly what I do, and have done with my JWP.

Here are a few of my JWP:












Now, you show me your trees that you do your way since you have so much experience.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

In “your opinion”, and “your experience”? Right? I don’t want to be accused of misinterpreting your post.

Well, Bjorn’s method is exactly what I do, and have done with my JWP.

Here are a few of my JWP:

View attachment 298136

View attachment 298137

View attachment 298138

View attachment 298140

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Now, you show me your trees that you do your way since you have so much experience.

Beautiful trees! Did you apply the same decandling methods while they were in the early stages of development?

 

[AlainK]

Very clear explanations. Even his accent is top notch, I understood every single word he said - good diction too !

This being said, I tried removing all the candles on a small scots pine, and it budded back : I suppose that was because it was in a juvenile stage. Anyway, it died two years later...

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I just wanted to know how to get more back buds on single flush pines.

 

[sorce]

Now, you show me your trees that you do your way since you have so much experience.

Why do you have to shut down the discussion?

Why always taking offense?

Unless you can prove those trees couldn't get to refinement twice as fast using another method, there is nothing for you to say.

@William N. Valavanis was this tree refined in the same manner in NY?

Sorce

 

[sorce]

get to refinement twice as fast

Or be twice as refined.

Sorce

 

[Colorado]

@Adair M in your experience and opinion, is there any real difference in doing this type of work with scissors versus fingers? I’ve seen it done both ways.

 

[Colorado]

Why do you have to shut down the discussion?

Why always taking offense?

Unless you can prove those trees couldn't get to refinement twice as fast using another method, there is nothing for you to say.

@William N. Valavanis was this tree refined in the same manner in NY?

Sorce

What’s the “other method?”

 

[Dav4]

I watched the video yesterday when it popped up on my FB page. I've always done this work with my fingers but may switch to using scissors... more accuracy and less trauma to the needles and stem. Good stuff.

 

[_#1_]

prove

In all fairness, The burden is not on Mr. M to prove/disprove anything. He clearly showed the product of the certain technique used.

The burden is on whoever think other method may work better to show some proof/examples.

No?

 

[sorce]

In all fairness, The burden is not on Mr. M to prove/disprove anything. He clearly showed the product of the certain technique used.

The burden is on whoever think other method may work better to show some proof/examples.

No?

It's not about the burden of proof.

It's about showing trees that look nice to debate the length of time it took to get there.

It doesn't matter.

I shouldn't have said, don't have anything to say, I should have said, doesn't say anything.

@Dav4 cuticle cutters will be even less invasive, I was thinking about it looking at the video.

It's about the "poodled" aesthetic.
As well as less energy.

I get more energy and no poodling.

Compact, and with buds to cut back to for restarts.

And much more even candles from the get go.

Because of what happens BEFORE spring.

It's about not being behind the 8ball.
Which is the position this (Bjorn's)technique works in.

There is more health and beauty to be had before the 8ball.

Sorce