coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Hint...he doesn't like it and claims it gives sub-par results.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Bjorn Bjorholm on Hedge Pruning
Happy Thanksgiving!
Bjorn Bjorholm on Hedge Pruning
Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning
- Thread starter coh
- Start date
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
He made a passing remark about it a few podcasts ago and apparently got inundated with "bonsai hate mail" (thus the title of this podcast).
ihaveaspaceship
Shohin
I haven't seen good results from hedging posted on the internet yet.
Woocash
Omono
Yes, good podcast. It was a bit, “I’ve been taught this way and any other thinking is just wrong”. I’m not experienced in either method yet, but I can see where he’s coming from. I just wish people didn’t get so precious about the methods they use. Even when he said it was fine for people not to like Japanese trees etc, he did so in a derogatory manner.
For example, I’m a trained luthier of orchestral double basses. I no longer work at the company, but I was a restorer of old master instruments. We’d hear through the grapevine about people and other luthiers all over the world pooh poohing our techniques and how we weren’t doing things in the traditional way or that we hadn’t been to an official luthier school or studied under this master or that master, but the problem was, our instruments and restorations were top class. They sounded amazing, they were strong, looked good and once in an orchestral setting, no one could argue with the results. Still the detractors carry on bleating, because we were cheaper, getting better results, and more clientele.
I’m not saying Bjorn is wrong, but just because somebody does something differently doesn’t mean their methods or results are sub par. It depends what you’re aiming for, at the end of the day.
For example, I’m a trained luthier of orchestral double basses. I no longer work at the company, but I was a restorer of old master instruments. We’d hear through the grapevine about people and other luthiers all over the world pooh poohing our techniques and how we weren’t doing things in the traditional way or that we hadn’t been to an official luthier school or studied under this master or that master, but the problem was, our instruments and restorations were top class. They sounded amazing, they were strong, looked good and once in an orchestral setting, no one could argue with the results. Still the detractors carry on bleating, because we were cheaper, getting better results, and more clientele.
I’m not saying Bjorn is wrong, but just because somebody does something differently doesn’t mean their methods or results are sub par. It depends what you’re aiming for, at the end of the day.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Fine, abundant, ramification, no scars [ unless decorative and hence
deliberate,]
deliberate,]
it is very nice to hear somebody so clearly articulate and promote japanese aesthetics, approaches/techniques, and values regarding deciduous material (in addition to those people already doing it)
in his mochikomi podcast episode bjorn also discusses the downsides to ground-growing maples
it is nice to learn what is done in japan, from somebody who has *recently* spent a decade there
in his mochikomi podcast episode bjorn also discusses the downsides to ground-growing maples
it is nice to learn what is done in japan, from somebody who has *recently* spent a decade there
I suggest that perhaps you need to see the difference in person. As Bjorn says, you need to enlarge the photos to see the little bulges. Once you train your eye, it becomes impossible to not see them.
I think Bjorn is very brave to point this out. Michael Hagedorn took quite a bit of flack for taking on the “don’t pinch junipers” stance.
Both are just trying to raise the standard of bonsai here in the US.
coltranem
Chumono
He actually explains why he feels they are subpar and it is not just because it is not traditional or different. You can still don't have to agree with him but he does give reasons beyond it is not the way the Japanese do it.
Jcmmaple
Chumono
Well there is @Walter Pall who is a pro with excellent trees, and he hedge prunes. Like said before it depends on who you talk to and the style they like. Wether it is traditional or not it’s the way he does it. Either way that’s the beauty of this hobby, you find the style you like and go for it.
Jzack605
Chumono
If you’ve never seen one done well, you’ve clearly never seen any of Walter Paul’s trees.
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
The only way to evaluate a method is by comparing the results to another method. In the end it is not a matter of belief or tradition , it is a matter of shown facts, He who has the better trees in the long run has the better method.
imagine a world where we stopped using comparative and superlative terms like 'better' and 'best', and started using terms like 'different'
different methods produce different results, possibly suitable for different styles...
and all of a sudden it's a happy world
it's not a competition. van gogh isn't better than picasso
bjorn very politely said he personally prefers one method for very specific reasons, and emphasized repeatedly that it was personal preference, largely due to his decade of training in that school of thought... and he immediately got flooded with hate mail from members of the Church of Pall - which your evangelist tone has created
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Bjorn was careful not to name names. But yes, Walter is the primary advocate of the hedge pruning method. Prior to Walter, I had never heard of hedge pruning as a technique, and I’ve been doing bonsai 50 years. However, I was familiar with the technique Bjorn described, even “way back when”.
There was a time in Boon’s garden a few years back when Boon had a client’s trees in there, but the client stopped working on them in the manner that Boon taught. I remember a very nice trident maple root over rock, in particular. I was always dumbstruck over how the roots had so well melded onto the craggy rock that I never noticed any flaws. But Boon would mutter under his breath about how it “had flaws”, “needed cutting back“, “gotta get this outta here”, etc. every time he’d walk by.
I didn’t understand. To me, the tree was incredible! (I wish I had a picture!) So finally, one day, I stopped Boon and asked what was wrong with the tree? So, he stopped and showed me how that it was a trident, but it was pinched like a Japanese Maple. Which caused a bulge at that same point and it created little bulges all along the branches. Little knobs had grown everywhere (well, all along the outer perimeter), where the tree had not been allowed to grow out before being cut back.
I hadn’t noticed. But, now that my awareness was triggered, I saw it, too.
The other tridents in Boon’s garden, maintained Boon’s way, didn’t have any knobs, and had nicely developed taper with tight internodes.
I’m actually grateful that tree had been “poorly maintained” because otherwise I’d never had such an excellent learning experience! And yes, every time I’d walk past that tree, I’d see the bulges! (It was on the end of the bench along a row, so I’d pass by it often. Of course, it was only apparent in the winter. With leaves, you couldn’t tell.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Before the storm in a teacup gets hotter -
Japanese way and Japanese wannabes - Mannerism
Walter Pall and somewhat Chinese way - Naturalism
K.S and Anthony's way - Idealism
Does it please the viewer's eye and heart ?
Good Day
Anthony
Japanese way and Japanese wannabes - Mannerism
Walter Pall and somewhat Chinese way - Naturalism
K.S and Anthony's way - Idealism
Does it please the viewer's eye and heart ?
Good Day
Anthony
Anthony, the methods, the techniques applied, are separate from the styling of the trees.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
bonsaichile
Omono
I thibk what Adair is hinting at is that you can (for example) make a mannerist painting or a hyperrealist one using the same oil painting techniques. Technique is a tool; style has to do with the vision you try to flesh out using different tools. My 2 cents
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