Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

amcoffeegirl

Masterpiece
Messages
2,772
Reaction score
4,798
Location
IOWA
USDA Zone
5b
I have never heard WP say that he is designing Japanese style trees.
Do they look like an old tree? Are they interesting? Why can’t both exist?
Why does it have to be one or the other?
 

Igor. T. Ljubek

Yamadori
Messages
65
Reaction score
79
Location
Slovenia
USDA Zone
7b
Is it just me or you guys really don't care much which of these two methods is less harmful for your trees? It's not all about aesthetic. What about keepeng a tree healthy and alive as long as possible? Walter says that pinching is weakening a tree, but i am not sure about that, because there are thousands of very old Japanese decisuous bonsai trees, all done with classic Japanese techniques and they look strong and vigorous. I am getting more and more confused what to believe ...
 

Woocash

Omono
Messages
1,607
Reaction score
2,263
Location
Oxford, UK
Is it just me or you guys really don't care much which of these two methods is less harmful for your trees? It's not all about aesthetic. What about keepeng a tree healthy and alive as long as possible? Walter says that pinching is weakening a tree, but i am not sure about that, because there are thousands of very old Japanese decisuous bonsai trees, all done with classic Japanese techniques and they look strong and vigorous. I am getting more and more confused what to believe ...
Trees are designed to withstand the rigours of punishment. It’s how they survive so long. Obviously, things like complete defoliation and roots being cut off aren’t usually part of the deal, but they have evolved to recover from extreme setbacks with little to no loss of overall health. I think both methods are pretty severe so if you’re concerned about which is less harmful I think you should think about what bonsai really is. Selective weakening for future strength.
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,389
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13
Trees evolved to handle, cuts and breaks but not vines wrapping
around trunks or branches.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,912
Reaction score
45,595
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
so you think if you start hedging your trees they will end up looking like Walter’s trees?
i think there is a little bit more behind it

Copious amounts of fertilizer!

Just kidding.

How did you derive that from what I said?

I've also already said I can't hedge.

Sorce
 

Djtommy

Omono
Messages
1,551
Reaction score
5,368
Location
Tokyo
How did you derive that from what I said?

I've also already said I can't hedge.

Sorce
because you made it sound that the styling of that tree came from the hedge prunning.
up to a certain level perhaps yes but It takes a lot more fertilizer to get that result.

if you have a scissor you can hedge, you can also prune back to 2 With the same scissor :)
 

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,062
Reaction score
17,708
Location
London, England
My guess is that you are right. Yet i am still confused why Walter Pall, Bjorn Bjorholm and some other bonsai masters don't see it like that ...

simple. they have different styles. hope that clears up the confusion:)

would be a bit crap if we were all the same eh
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,898
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
They do not do well in climates with cold winters.
That’s true. Tridents are more cold sensitive than others and require some winter protection in Really cold climates. Bill Valavanis has them, but he keeps Japanese Maples primarily.
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,913
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
Just so you don't forget; we have been having an ongoing discussion of Pinching verses clipping the new growth on a Juniper bonsai.
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,913
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
@Vance Wood, you were there... what did you think of this tree?
I thought it was the best JBP I have ever seen. The internodes were short and the needles were compact. We did not get the opportunity to discus this tree in a lot of detail but as I remember your success was due to timing as to when it was treated for reduction and the time before a show.
 

Orion_metalhead

Masterpiece
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
4,684
Location
Central NJ
USDA Zone
7a
Who is your audience? Who will you be showing your tree to? If my intent was to impress and show a tree in WP's circles and the predominant technique for ramification was hedge pruning, Im sure I would lean on that technique. If I was showing in a japanese show with japanese judges, i may pick a different technique to use on my tree to better suit their eyes and preference.

If Im only going to he showing the tree to no one but myself, I only need the tree to be what I want the tree to be and may use the methods that I enjoy using. What is the purpose of using one method over the other?

It seems that hedge pruning doesnt seem to force focused backbudding the way which traditional branch selection techniques does.
 

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,062
Reaction score
17,708
Location
London, England
how many of us actually have as much trees as Walter does?!!!! i think if you wanted to implement his style of hedge pruning say 20 to 30 trees, two or three times a season and at the end of the season, editing all the faults or bits you dont like, you will produce top quality trees very quickly.

likewise, if you go with the clip and grow method, going over every branch with a fine tooth comb, wiring here n there.....lest not forget that with the hedge method branches are also wired and manipulated! .....you will also produce top quality trees!
sometimes the level of ramification once can produce also depends on what species we are working with. some of the Zelkova and Hackberries are capable of producing ULTRA FINE ramification maybe quicker than say Beech or Hornbeam, the latter will produce dense ramification but some of the Hackberry coming out of places like Taiwan get this ULTRA FINE twigging that looks even too much at times. depending on tastes i guess. i love Hackberry though, i know what they're capable of, so i bought one for myself earlier in the season!

was it John naka that said we want to produce trees where the birds can fly through, well some of these ultra ramified trees appear to be so DENSE that birds would fly in and get trapped, stuck!
Nice to look at but for me personally a bit too dense. someone compared the famous WP maple to another tree i think it was a Trident raft/forest, to me it looks photoshopped.
while Walters tree looks like a tree i would come across in the woods or park/forest. i know which one i would rather have on my bench and i know which one i would probably sell. buts thats just my 2 cents
 

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,062
Reaction score
17,708
Location
London, England
Who is your audience? Who will you be showing your tree to? If my intent was to impress and show a tree in WP's circles and the predominant technique for ramification was hedge pruning, Im sure I would lean on that technique. If I was showing in a japanese show with japanese judges, i may pick a different technique to use on my tree to better suit their eyes and preference.

If Im only going to he showing the tree to no one but myself, I only need the tree to be what I want the tree to be and may use the methods that I enjoy using. What is the purpose of using one method over the other?

It seems that hedge pruning doesnt seem to force focused backbudding the way which traditional branch selection techniques does.

not sure what you mean there, but the method produces back budding in places where you never expected a branch to pop. while the other method has folk having to graft new branches left, right and centre. ive lost count the amount of times someone posts on the forums about wanting to graft a branch here or a root there!
I study a lot of the methods out of Croatia and also Walter's methods which are the same, i can say that ive never seen a photo progression where a branch had to be grafted on because none were growing there, usually there is too many branches a result of their technique. it promotes aggressive back budding!
i respect what everyone is doing though.
 
Top Bottom