Smoke
Ignore-Amus
109 here today
Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning
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sorce
Nonsense Rascal
The hedge pruning part gets you to the first ones.
The rest of the technique gets you to the other.
People are looking at this big picture like, the hedging part is for "development", then somehow "refinement" is something different later or whatever.
Lotta words in this thread confusing the actual.
In reality, the entire method, at least how I understand it, serves both purposes absolutely, and at the same time.
The hedging part developing branches and strength yearly, that gets detailed attention...yearly.
@Smoke is trying to get hit! We should try to get on every "Talk Shit get Hit" segment.
Sorce
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
The difference is at 1 AM it will still be 90 degrees here and it will be 69 in Sacramento. The delta is a wonderful thing....for Sacramento!
My plants will begin shutting down over the next few weeks. My working season is done till Sept. 15 earliest. Then I get about 45 good days.
Interesting...
I really don’t want to put words in Walter’s mouth, but on one thread like this he said something to the effect that he felt that all his deciduous trees were “in development”.
That can be interpreted in several ways.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
I think Mr Ljubek is confusing your hedging method with actually cutting a hedge.
Igor. T. Ljubek
Yamadori
Hmm, but why would you develop branches that you won't need, if you can simply cut them off in early stage and then continue with your classic styling? With hedge pruning you spend years developing branches that you don't want, instead of focusing on those that you wanna keep, or am i missing something?
I am sure it's a hedge pruning, but this tree doesn't have a foliage. I am sure that with a foliage it looks exactly like samples on my first two pictures: a canopy without empty space between branches, with no "clouds". Don't get me wrong, i like your tree very much, Mr. Pall, it's not a question of which tree looks better. I am just asking, if you can achieve these cloudy looking bonsai trees with hedge pruning method? Sure, you can simply cut off, lets say, 50% branches on the tree that you posted and you get this cloudy looking tree. But why would you cut them off now, why not in earlier stage, why not 10 or 12 years ago?
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
You are wroing! I have explained in depth the method and the results on many places. If you don't read this you will not understnd. I am NOT going to repeat this all over again.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Every winter there is detailed work done.
I feel like you waste some energy for the "randomness", or, "options", that result.
But I believe any energy that is wasted, 1. Isn't there in the first place with other methods. 2. Worth it.
Soon, we will have micronanorobots that can calculate these truths AND style our trees from the inside....
Then the argument will be of something else!
Sorce
Mayank
Chumono
I think you are confusing the actual technique with the name. I have been "hedge pruning" my Chinese elm for years as had the person that developed it (he is the one that told me to do so). So instead of going into each single twig and removing which can take ages for Chinese elm and then in a few days you have to repeat because that's how my crazy Corky grows, I just remove large swathes with a Fiskars office scissors (gasp!) and get done in a half hour. I do have pads and spaces for "birds to fly through".
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
you edit out the bits you dont like or want after leaf drop.
during the growing season you have an abundance of growth and new twigs, you keep everything, because at leaf drop you can edit out the bits you dont want or like!
but keeping this abundance of growth in the growing season and only shearing back to a silhouette, means you get lots of branches and new branches all competing, crossing, overlapping, searching.... this results in many changes of direction, angles, you know like what happens in wild trees, all these changes of direction result in a natural looking tree.
this has been said many times, if you read it more than once or twice you will begin to understand. dont be lazy
and if youre preferance is a cookie cutter tree you can go in at leaf drop and create negative spaces howsoever you please. simple
during the growing season you have an abundance of growth and new twigs, you keep everything, because at leaf drop you can edit out the bits you dont want or like!
but keeping this abundance of growth in the growing season and only shearing back to a silhouette, means you get lots of branches and new branches all competing, crossing, overlapping, searching.... this results in many changes of direction, angles, you know like what happens in wild trees, all these changes of direction result in a natural looking tree.
this has been said many times, if you read it more than once or twice you will begin to understand. dont be lazy
and if youre preferance is a cookie cutter tree you can go in at leaf drop and create negative spaces howsoever you please. simple
ecalvillo7
Sapling
Doesn´t matter... it´s a great tree, well developed and with fine ramification. If its hedge pruning its awesome, if its branch by branch its too. That´s what it all comes down to, end result.
You don't ''spend years'' developing branches you don't need. With this method which is done in summer, you force ramification in the tree which would most likely not appear by simply pinching and pruning because although it is faster and less judicial, more branch tips are left of the tree and plenty of light reaches the deep branches. This forces greater ramification. Greater ramification gives greater choice. For example, if you happen to force a branch further down, it might be in a better position so you might be able to use it as a replacement. When the leaves fall, you go back in and select what you want to keep, remove what you don't and arrange with wire if necessary. Then repeat the following year. Walter can add or correct this if he sees fit but I think this is the general idea. Last summer I did this two times a zelkova and have not touched it since. When it's leaves fall I will post a picture of what is there and how I might manage it.
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
Thanks a lot. Finally someone understands this. But this is not all.
Traditional methods are aimed to keep the tree as is. They should not be applied when a tree is developed. But they all do it. Traditional methods weaken the tree on purpose. The Hedge Pruning method strengthens the tree on purpose. Even if you can achieve similar results with traditional methods the HPM is about three times faster or more. Meaning what you normally achieve in ten years or never you get with HPM in three years.
And then all this extra strength is caused by WAY more foliage than with traditional methods. Often it is about three to five times or even more the amount of foliage compared to traditional methods in summer. The more foliage the more growth. While you work on the crown the main branches and the trunk get much thicker and taper gets better. How much? I often achieve 50 % growth in thickness of trunk within five years. A trunk which had 4 inches in diameter will be six inches in five years. With traditional methods it would take ten years or even twenty years.
Big and very big wounds will find it very difficult to impossible to callous over with traditional methods. With HPM this will happen as a side effect.
And good nebaris could be bigger? Sure, with HPM the will be MUCH bigger as side effect.
How is it possible that so many people really like my broadleaved trees but question my methods. The one is the direct result of the other. Why do I show all these progressions?
And this is a METHOD! It can be applied to any style with same results. Meaning a traditionally styled tree can very well be improved a lot with this method and still look traditional. Just because I and most of my students apply this method to the Naturalistic Bonsai style does not mean that it does not work on other styles.
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Mikecheck123
Omono
Speed was something that Bjorn ignored entirely in the podcast as if it was not even a real consideration.
HENDO
Shohin
Thank you Mr. Pall,
From a Nut just now finally figuring out how to properly water and fertilize, it is much appreciated to read through these discussions and have an alternative and potentially hugely beneficial method for development pushed, explained, and ready to attempt. My hedge pruners are sharpened and ready for action.
Maybe this is not the best method for everybody or every tree, maybe it is, but for the everyday hobbyists out there it is at the very least something to attempt and to prove/unprove through personal experience, perhaps even through some sort of results. For the hardcore masters on here, something to debate for years to come
Very nice to have your input Sir and I am sure even the nay-sayers would agree with that.
Thanks much.
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
I forgot to mention that full defoliation with great effects is now possible on species and varieties which are normally problematic. Since they are strengthened and not weakened they can stand the defoliation. European beech comes to my mind. We are being warned to do defoliate on them because they can react badly. Now I defoliate them fully and they don't blink.
Bonsai toto
Mame
Interesting thread and silly to even begin with.
all i can understand is all of us use both method under different 'name' and on different stages.
its unfair to compare those 2 method where the desire result is totally different from both method
Hedge for me is just a method of "trimming" after tree growing wild, thicken and more option(branches) to design in future (for those who lazy to lay a single wire to the tree for future direction which can cause to have limited design or even more time needed if wanted a design that is out of the norm)
The other method(many) is more to refinement technique (after achieved the necessary criteria such as taper, nebari, thickness of the tree or branch etc..in which what people usually called hedge, growing wild , or thicken the branch etc...like i said different name same result)....1 simple question, how do we name a method where bout we reduce the foliage on certain area on the tree after achieved the taper, nebari, size of the branch etc? guess what...some call it hedge prune, some call it trimming, some call it cutting, and so on.
case : If 2 identical raw materials in the same stage (well balance nebari, superb thick trunk link, desired thickness of branches from the trunk, no scar), i do not think anyone, not even Walter himself will cont to use the hedge pruning anymore.
regards,
toto
all i can understand is all of us use both method under different 'name' and on different stages.
its unfair to compare those 2 method where the desire result is totally different from both method
Hedge for me is just a method of "trimming" after tree growing wild, thicken and more option(branches) to design in future (for those who lazy to lay a single wire to the tree for future direction which can cause to have limited design or even more time needed if wanted a design that is out of the norm)
The other method(many) is more to refinement technique (after achieved the necessary criteria such as taper, nebari, thickness of the tree or branch etc..in which what people usually called hedge, growing wild , or thicken the branch etc...like i said different name same result)....1 simple question, how do we name a method where bout we reduce the foliage on certain area on the tree after achieved the taper, nebari, size of the branch etc? guess what...some call it hedge prune, some call it trimming, some call it cutting, and so on.
case : If 2 identical raw materials in the same stage (well balance nebari, superb thick trunk link, desired thickness of branches from the trunk, no scar), i do not think anyone, not even Walter himself will cont to use the hedge pruning anymore.
regards,
toto
ajm55555
Chumono
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Maybe they're not the same people ;-)
I think this sentence summarizes what Walter is trying to explain. You like the result? Learn from the source how that is achieved.
Don't like it? Try something different. There is no point in criticizing a method that leads to a well documented result (thanks Walter for your effort) saying that it doesn't work in achieving something else.
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