Black Pine Training

[Bonsai Bonanza]

I'm new to bonsai but have jumped in with both feet because I'm a bored gardener. I ordered this black pine in the mail with intent of training it to be Cascading. I'm wondering if now is a good time to repot and wire or should I wait until spring is here? I live in zone 8b

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

You can wire now, but wait with the repot until spring. Check out the 6 year JBP contest too! That material is roughly the same age.
If this is a grafted pine, make sure you don't put any pressure on the graft itself because it might break. Also, if it's grafted, be prepared for people saying something about that graft. It's usually considered to be a flaw.

 

[Bonsai Bonanza]

You can wire now, but wait with the repot until spring. Check out the 6 year JBP contest too! That material is roughly the same age.
If this is a grafted pine, make sure you don't put any pressure on the graft itself because it might break. Also, if it's grafted, be prepared for people saying something about that graft. It's usually considered to be a flaw.

I do not think it's a graft. I bought it as being advertised as a 1 year seedling. Unfortunately I don't know how to tell either. Thank you so much for your expert advise.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Grass skirt-laden undulations in your direction, traveler! The Woody Dwarves would like to see your finest dance-steps... hear the strummed melody of your very soul.. tonight, at the festival... deep within The Tiny Forest!

I’m Pinus(Pine) Illiterate, but MANY here are the exact opposite (including the advice you already received)

I’m just, “*clicks tongue* Yah!”-ing my welcome wagon in your direction, after hearing Wires_Guy’s voice, conversing with a new traveler ‘round the bend.

If you’d like to go ahead and update your profile to reflect your location.. it will save a ton of time and headaches in the future... it can be vague...(mine just says, Northeastern Wisconsin).. just so we know your zone..

Pleasure to make your acquaintance!

 

[Bonsai Bonanza]

I do not think it's a graft. I bought it as being advertised as a 1 year seedling. Unfortunately I don't know how to tell either. Thank you so much for your expert advise.

I think I see what you mean. The small bare point that grows nothing and is sticking straight up, will be seen as a flaw, correct?

 

[HorseloverFat]

(Look reeeeal good and long ‘round the base.. look for delineation.. take/share some closer pictures of the tree’s base, and the folks here’ll know)

I think I MAY see a graft union.. but it’s hard to tell from that picture AAAAND i don’t know pines well.

But I AM eager to help!

 

[Bonsai Bonanza]

(Look reeeeal good and long ‘round the base.. look for delineation.. take/share some closer pictures of the tree’s base, and the folks here’ll know)

I think I MAY see a graft union.. but it’s hard to tell from that picture AAAAND i don’t know pines well.

But I AM eager to help!

I think you are right! So does this change how or when I should begin to train to cascade?

 

[HorseloverFat]

There she blows.

Now this is not all in all a bad thing... https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/understanding-the-value-of-grafted-trees.47847/

My knowledge with pines is limited, as to your cascade training question.

Even those with marginal pine experience could help you.. literally.. almost anyone EXCEPT me.

You could call in the SUPER big Pinus-guns.. or.. Big Super-Pinus Guns?... hmm.. either way.. you COULD attempt to lure @Adair M here with your siren song and inquire as to Young, grafted pine material and cascade training...

He is very knowledgeable and relates his wisdom to any experience level with ease.

 

[River's Edge]

You can wire now, but wait with the repot until spring. Check out the 6 year JBP contest too! That material is roughly the same age.
If this is a grafted pine, make sure you don't put any pressure on the graft itself because it might break. Also, if it's grafted, be prepared for people saying something about that graft. It's usually considered to be a flaw.

The picture is deceiving, this is a pine grown for forestry purposes. Seedling is correct, the pot is the giveaway and the purchaser is correct he got what was sold to him. I would complete the trunk wire for movement at the same time as repotting. march is a good time for your location and the weather this year has been generally milder so I am repotting pines now in my nursery. I am the same zone as you 8b. However I have a greenhouse to house them for a few nights if we get a cold snap. Use a fairly heavy wire so it holds position easily! I expect the pot to be a two inch seedling pot. If that is the case you should be able to wire the trunk easily with 4 mm aluminum wire or #8 gauge copper wire. Anchor the wire to the pot or container so it does not twist or put pressure on the root ball.
Also expect that you will have to deal with tap roots due to the manner in which the seedling has been grown. Do not be so aggressive with root work the first time around. There will be lots of opportunity to improve the root structure over the next decade.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Shibui]

The pot may be the same as used for forestry trees but that pine is definitely grafted! Not sure why or by whom but that graft is very obvious.
A new graft changes what you can do. First step is to get the graft to heal properly. The old stock trunk (bare part needs to be cut close to the join then leave it to grow for another year, maybe 2 while the union heals and gains some strength.
While that happens you can also repot and get the roots sorted to develop future nebari - cut any strong down roots and arrange whatever is left in a flat radial as possible pattern and pot it into a pot big enough to support some good growth Then let it be for a year or 2.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The pot may be the same as used for forestry trees but that pine is definitely grafted! Not sure why or by whom but that graft is very obvious.
A new graft changes what you can do. First step is to get the graft to heal properly. The old stock trunk (bare part needs to be cut close to the join then leave it to grow for another year, maybe 2 while the union heals and gains some strength.
While that happens you can also repot and get the roots sorted to develop future nebari - cut any strong down roots and arrange whatever is left in a flat radial as possible pattern and pot it into a pot big enough to support some good growth Then let it be for a year or 2.

Hmmm if it takes two years to heal, I would consider it to be nice learning material, go wild with it and order a couple non-grafted seedlings to play for keeps with.

 

[Adair M]

It sure looks like a graft to me.

To be honest, this isn’t the kind of material I work with. It needs a few years...

It might turn out to be great... or awful. It’s just too early to tell at this point.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I think you are right! So does this change how or when I should begin to train to cascade?

It’s really too young to begin training. And yes, if you apply too much pressure to the graft, it will come apart and the tree will die. Search here for the term “pine sacrifice branch” to begin to learn how to grow a young pine into bonsai material.

 

[HorseloverFat]

It’s really too young to begin training. And yes, if you apply too much pressure to the graft, it will come apart and the tree will die. Search here for the term “pine sacrifice branch” to begin to learn how to grow a young pine into bonsai material.

Yes! I have forever been inspired by those circulated pictures of the developing trees at Telperion.

You have said, in the past, “It takes a lot of wood to make a tiny tree”.. This type of statement resonates with me.

 

[River's Edge]

I think you are right! So does this change how or when I should begin to train to cascade?

It does for me, the potential simply disappears for me at this point. Can you learn something yes. Will it be worth the time questionable? Why not learn on something with better potential.