Black spruce bonsai

[Ugo]

Hi everyone,

My name is Ugo and Im from Qc,Canada.

Yesterday I was looking at local ads and saw this little black spruce. (I think its a black spruce)
As I dont have exterior bonsai I tough this one would a good subjet to begin with.

I have read some good advices on the internet but I would like to ask some more specific questions about this little tree.

1- My first question is about its placement in the backyard.
I read that the tree will do okay under the sun but its better to place in a shady spot when sun is at its highest point is that right?

2-At this time of the year temperature can go below the freezing point at night but some days can be hot for this time of the year!
Can I leave the tree outside without pot protection?
I do have an unheated garage, where the tree could be placed in front of a window, protected from the wind but when the sun is out the temperature in that room can get quite high.
So I hesite between leaving outside protected from the wind or bring it in the unheated garage.

3-Im already trying to figure out what to do next winter....
The tree could be placed in my unheated garage in from of thw window but Im affraid the roots freeze without pot protection.
The temperature can fall below -20c
Again what could be better?
Place it in the unheated garage or is would be best to place it in a isolated box that will protect the tree from wind, cover the pot with isolating material but leaving the top open and let snow cover the tree?
If I leave the tree in my unheated garage Im affraid I wont be able to water it as temperature goes below the freezing point.

4- I would like to cut some non esthetic branches.
Not now as I havent take a decision on the best viewing point but in future.
I read that I should leave 1-2 inchs from the truck and use cutting paste.
But can I cut the branches closer to the truck and cut it completely?
I have some options but there is a small branch on the lower half that grow toward the viewer. That a good example of the type of cut I want to do.
What would be the best time of the year to do this type of cutting?

5- Pruning.. I read that the buds need to be pinched and twited instead of cutting with scissor does it make sense?

6- The came just like the pictures with aluminum wires in place.
Can you tell me more on when to remove them?
So far I read that the wires should stay on until summer, were I should them, and re-install the wires in autum/winter. Do you have more details?

7- I dont really like the very top of the tree.
It would look better if that part was dead wood cutted at an angle or maybe you have a better idea?
Do you think this kind of major work can be done?
If so I would like to see some examples.

If you have any other good infos , tips or reading material please let me know.
I already read technical data but I havent read much from someone with hand on experience.

Thanks alot
Ugo

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[0soyoung]

Picea mariana is native across Canada, all the way to the arctic circle. It is hard to imagine that it needs protection outdoors, beyond possibly mulching around the pot as roots are not as cold hardy as the rest of the tree. It is important to keep in mind that cold hardiness is induced by the progression of lower overnight and daytime temperatures that occurs in fall. IOW, be sure the tree is outside in fall. If this tree didn't get that exposure this last fall, then you need to be careful about its being exposed to freezing temperatures now.

You can leave the wire on until it seems to 'bite' into the stems OR you can remove it anytime you wish - simply unwind it from the tip back toward the trunk while holding the stem with your other hand.

IMHO, you have a problem that you just have a few branches and those basically only have foliage at the tips. Don't do the new growth pinching thing you've read about. That is a technique for limiting the shoot extension on developed bonsai. My experience with picea pungens is that it is better to let new growth extend and then when you can see buds on that new growth (about August), do your pruning work. Cut back to a bud, that is be sure there is always a bud at the terminal of a shoot stem. Otherwise, the stem will inevitably die back to a bud or node (branching location) even though it will take as long as two years for the needles to drop off. Doing this as soon as the new growth is hardened and one can see the new buds will make picea pungens pop buds on needleless wood closer to the trunk and even on the trunk. Maybe picea mariana will respond similarly.

Keep in mind that the new growth is the most photosynthetically and hormonally (auxin) productive. So, don't remove all new shoots - it will seriously weaken the tree.

I have only some general considerations for you with regard to styling. As I've indicated, I think all the foliage is too far away from the trunk. A styling trick is to bend the branches back and forth in the horizontal plane which will make the branches appear to be shorter. Also I suggest that you get annealed copper wire for this. You'll want wire diameters roughly 1/3 the diameter of the stems to which you will apply it.

Don't try to wire the tree once the buds have cracked until sometime after the new growth is hardened. This is the time of rapid growth and the bark is easily damaged or even accidentally stripped off.. On the other hand, if you want to remove bark to make jin or shari, this is the time to rip the bark off! Keep in mind, though, that you may want to wait a while before jinning the top of the trunk, as it is the foliage up there that drives thickening the trunk. Also, keep in mind that you could chop off the top and wire up a branch, making it into the next section of a trunk that you will create, instead of accepting what you see now to be the trunk of your bonsai.

 

[Ugo]

Picea mariana is native across Canada, all the way to the arctic circle. It is hard to imagine that it needs protection outdoors, beyond possibly mulching around the pot as roots are not as cold hardy as the rest of the tree. It is important to keep in mind that cold hardiness is induced by the progression of lower overnight and daytime temperatures that occurs in fall. IOW, be sure the tree is outside in fall. If this tree didn't get that exposure this last fall, then you need to be careful about its being exposed to freezing temperatures now.

You can leave the wire on until it seems to 'bite' into the stems OR you can remove it anytime you wish - simply unwind it from the tip back toward the trunk while holding the stem with your other hand.

IMHO, you have a problem that you just have a few branches and those basically only have foliage at the tips. Don't do the new growth pinching thing you've read about. That is a technique for limiting the shoot extension on developed bonsai. My experience with picea pungens is that it is better to let new growth extend and then when you can see buds on that new growth (about August), do your pruning work. Cut back to a bud, that is be sure there is always a bud at the terminal of a shoot stem. Otherwise, the stem will inevitably die back to a bud or node (branching location) even though it will take as long as two years for the needles to drop off. Doing this as soon as the new growth is hardened and one can see the new buds will make picea pungens pop buds on needleless wood closer to the trunk and even on the trunk. Maybe picea mariana will respond similarly.

Keep in mind that the new growth is the most photosynthetically and hormonally (auxin) productive. So, don't remove all new shoots - it will seriously weaken the tree.

I have only some general considerations for you with regard to styling. As I've indicated, I think all the foliage is too far away from the trunk. A styling trick is to bend the branches back and forth in the horizontal plane which will make the branches appear to be shorter. Also I suggest that you get annealed copper wire for this. You'll want wire diameters roughly 1/3 the diameter of the stems to which you will apply it.

Don't try to wire the tree once the buds have cracked until sometime after the new growth is hardened. This is the time of rapid growth and the bark is easily damaged or even accidentally stripped off.. On the other hand, if you want to remove bark to make jin or shari, this is the time to rip the bark off! Keep in mind, though, that you may want to wait a while before jinning the top of the trunk, as it is the foliage up there that drives thickening the trunk. Also, keep in mind that you could chop off the top and wire up a branch, making it into the next section of a trunk that you will create, instead of accepting what you see now to be the trunk of your bonsai.

Hi

Thanks for this very informative post!
I will defenately apply you advises.

I know the tree was outside last fall and this whole winter as the last owner told me.
I think I found a perfect spot for the tree for next winter. I will be able to protect the pot by putting it inground with mulching around.

As for jinning the top, I will wait for sure.
I really want to learn as much as possible before doing any kind of work on this little tree.
As I have no experience on spruce or any other conifer I prefer reading alot.. so basicly start walking before running!

My actual goal now is to make sure it is healthy, have the right placement for the coming summer, make sure I dont do any harms with wires and with patience correct the problem you mentionned about the foliage.

I will also try to find some pertinent informations about fertilizing and see if the tree could benefit from it.

My only concern is about one branch, a small one that has to be removed. I think the tree would look better without it.
But I want to know more before doing anything as I think for now leaving more foliage wouldnt hurt even if the cut will probably be more important in few years.

Again, thank you for theses informations.
On a side note do you a some informative reading material to suggest?

Ugo

 

[0soyoung]

I don't have any specific reading recommendations. Leaving inducing back buds on trunks aside, I learned a long time ago that what one does to one branch has little effect on the others. So I experiment with a branch or two before applying some technique to the entire tree. The hard part is to figure out what to try and when to try it. Reading posts and 'stuff' as you have been doing are good because they limit the number of possibilities. For example, you've noted that people recommend 'pinching' new shoots as soon as you can discern needles versus I have said to wait until after the new shoot has hardened and to only cut back to a bud. You can try out each technique this year (one on one branch, the other on another) and see for yourself what happens. Otherwise, keep all the foliage you can and pump up the tree's vigor --> it should make even more buds next year!

As far as fertilization is concerned, good nitrogen nutrition is essential for budding. You are, of course, free to use whatever fertilizing regimen you choose, but I use Osmocote-Plus at the rate of about 1/2 teaspoon per pot-gallon of soil. The standard plastic 'one-gallon' garden center nursery pot actually holds only about 80% of a gallon of soil, but is my standard volume (most of my collection began as garden center nursery plants). An eyeball estimate is all the accuracy that is really needed. Be careful to not overdo fertilizers. They are all salts. Too much of them in the soil sucks water out of the tree causing what is known as 'fertilizer burn' which can damage or even kill your tree. The nice thing about Osmocote is that the prills release their contents with increasing temperature pretty well matching the demands of your trees. Later, after you have enough experience you may want to use something else so that you can manipulate nitrogen availability more. You'll read that restricting nitrogen during shoot growth (spring, for picea) will limit the internode length. Then you need to 'feed feed feed' nitrogen once the new growth is fully extended and hardened (summer thru fall for picea), for budding, of course. Personally, I haven't found this extra complication worthwhile (yet).

Keep going in the direction you are going and stay open to ideas (you know how to test them!).

 

[0soyoung]

One last thing. When you 'put the tree in the ground' for winter, make sure there is extra space for water to drain from the pot. Roots must get oxygen to live, underwater they drown to death (and so goes your tree). During the winter, all is well if the soil is frozen solid. When warm days start happening, you actually may need to water. Again, all is well if the soil in the pot is solid and you cannot easily dig into it with your finger. But, if you can dig your finger in, you may need to water if it feels dry-ish.

.... for next winter.

 

[Ugo]

Hi sir,

Thanks again for your good advises.
I took all theses infos in note and I will stick to theses guidelines before doing any work.
So far I can see new buds on each shoots but I totally agree with you, its better to let the foliage grow. Its clear that this tree will benefit from it.

Ive found an interresting article on how to proprely cut branch off.
You probably saw that the tree as a dead branch of about 2in on the truck.
Nothing is decided yet but I will probably cut it off when I will have more knowledge

I guess the nice weather will finally settle in 2-3 weeks so it will be interresting to see the tree progression during summer time.

I will also gather some informations about pot size and repotting.
Unfortunately the actual pot is broken its not an emergency but I will replace it with a new one next year at the end of April.

I really like your suggestion about testing different techniques on "specific" branch.
It totally make sense as it will allow me to get some hands on experience and minimise the possible mistakes of any kind while keeping risk for the tree to a minimum.

Another good point is that theses tree can be found pretty much everywhere where I live so I can test wiring, jinning and other manipulations on theses as they will have no problem to survive if I damage the bark on extra branchs.

Again thanks alot for your time
Ugo

 

[Ugo]

Hi!

Just to give you a little update.

Spring is here and the tree seems in good health with new buds on every branches.



Foliage is also present on one branche I would like to remove in the future, a branche that grows towards the viewer but as you said I better leave it for now and wait until the branches grows to an acceptable limit before cutting.
I think for branches like that the sooner the better but I like the idea of leaving as much foliage as possible.

 

[Ugo]

Hi!

Quick middle summer update.

The tree seems to be much more vigourous then it was with foliage and news buds everywhere even on old wood and on the trunk drectly.




You will agree with me the foliage is much more better then it was!

Im still waiting for the pruning work as the new growth just hardened.
I will probably do a very light pruning on strongest part of the tree and leave the rest alone. But first I will test the work on a test branch as see what it does!

Its impressive to see how the branches naturally trues to go back up if they are not wired.
I taken off the wires carefully as some of them where starting to mark the bark and few weeks after the lower branches are already trying to get up.


Looking at the tree bring some more questions.

I would like to know if the a technique to encourage the tree to fill the gap between trunk and nebari.
I would like to create a smoother angle between them. For now it look like two different parts because of that gap.

I will repot the tree in April and do some root work and I start wondering if some of the aerial roots could be grafted to smooth it out.

 

[hinmo24t]

Hi!

Quick middle summer update.

The tree seems to be much more vigourous then it was with foliage and news buds everywhere even on old wood and on the trunk drectly.

View attachment 387795

View attachment 387803
You will agree with me the foliage is much more better then it was!

Im still waiting for the pruning work as the new growth just hardened.
I will probably do a very light pruning on strongest part of the tree and leave the rest alone. But first I will test the work on a test branch as see what it does!

Its impressive to see how the branches naturally trues to go back up if they are not wired.
I taken off the wires carefully as some of them where starting to mark the bark and few weeks after the lower branches are already trying to get up.


Looking at the tree bring some more questions.

I would like to know if the a technique to encourage the tree to fill the gap between trunk and nebari.
I would like to create a smoother angle between them. For now it look like two different parts because of that gap.

I will repot the tree in April and do some root work and I start wondering if some of the aerial roots could be grafted to smooth it out.
View attachment 387796

sweet! in nature these are the ones that have sparse tips? nigel saunders had an episode on them i believe.

throw a sailor-dive into that pool for me. memoirs from a windowless office

 

[Ugo]

sweet! in nature these are the ones that have sparse tips? nigel saunders had an episode on them i believe.

throw a sailor-dive into that pool for me. memoirs from a windowless office

Interresting ill go check it out thanks!

As for the dive, Ill take one for you while I can... back to my windowless office next week ;(

 

[Ugo]

Hi!

I would to ask a few more questions as Im trying to get more experience with this little tree.

I already had very good advises but its now time to make a choice between different work that has to be done.

Wiring and prunning:
I was under the impression that wiring was considered light work but after reading few articles it seems that its not.

As I have read only one major work per year Im trying to figure what would be the best scenario.

My original plan was to do a light prunning plus wiring at the end of August just to keep the form of the tree.
I have one branches that I would like to cut as I think it could create a reverse taper, so this work that make me doubt.

On the other hand I can see the tree need reppotting as roots are trying to escape the pot.
Unfortunately I have no history on this tree.

So Im affraid that would be too much work on tree for one year.

If I do only wiring and prunning this year my best bet would have been to way until spring and see how the tree react but it will be too late to do reppotting at that time.

On the other hand if I leave the tree as it is now and wait until next spring and do the reppotting, I will still have to wait one more year before doing prunning and a reverse taper could be created.

So should I prune the tree and take of a branch this year or do the reppotting next year?

 

[Ugo]

Hi everyone!

Hope you are doing well.
I did some work on my spruce tree this week and I would like to share the result with you and at the same time it allows me, and others to see the tree progession as seasons go by.

Everyone will probably notice, my wiring exoerience is limited and it was my first time wiring a conifer
The biggest challenge was to avoid all the new buds on the branches and keep as much foliage as possible while creating as much space between branches by opening them.

Before:


After:





Far from a professional look but Im still happy with the result as I think the tree look more natural that way.
Also if you take the first picture of the tree from last March and compare I think this is a step in the right direction.

One of the biggest issue is the top of the tree.
I got the tree with no foliage about 2 inchs from top as you can see in previous posts.
Instead of cutting the middle top branche, I decided to wire it and make it look like its the tip of the tree.
Its not perfect but in this case I had to deal with what I have.

In few years if no buds ever show up on top I will jin the top and reduce the height a little.

Thanks again to 0soyoung.
I think the tree really benefits from your advises.

Im also open to styling ideas and to critics as Im trying to learn from my mistakes!

Thanks
Ugo