Blue Atlas Cedar

[Adair M]

That is exactly my point. I am not trying to slight what is good for you and I know you are very skilled, but I have absolutely no desire to participate in National level shows.
I have been in horticulture for 58 years now but I have no idea how that rates. Bonsai only about 48 years, though not as consistently as you I am sure. Again, can't see that it means much.
Fact is, if the price is right, there are hundreds of people on this thread who would be delighted with this plant.
Just saying......

I know there are lots of people who would like this tree. That doesn’t mean it will ever be made into a good bonsai. Oh, I have heard the line: “There’s no such thing as bad material, only bad artists”. That’s BS.

You want to know why Walter Pall has such good trees? He starts with great material! Even then, starting with great material, it still takes a decade to make a good bonsai.

If you start out with poor material, it takes a decade to fix the flaws, and THEN you can start to design a good bonsai.

I know I don’t win any popularity contests when I make these kind of posts. I’m just saying that if you’re going to spend the next 10 years of your life working on a tree, make sure it has more positives than negatives. And that you have a vision of what you want it to be. If it had flaws, do you have the skills to overcome them? And the time? Is it worth the investment of your time?

I recognize that I have lofty goals for my trees. Maybe not everyone wants to win the Nationals, but I still believe that learning to choose better starting material leads to better success with bonsai, and makes for more fun than frustration. Bonsai, even with the very best material, is a challenge and requires a lot of patience. Why start off with unnecessary problems?

 

[Adair M]

Thanks @mwar15 Just searched on Jim Gremel and looks like Deer Medow is his website but it’s invalid? Is that right? Or am I missing something?

That was his web site, but it’s hone dormant.

Jim was the pioneer with Atlas Cedar in this country. Michael Hagedorn recently posted a photo timeline of one of Jim’s AC in his blog.

 

[AndyJ]

Thanks to those of you above for the positive responses and while I'm disappointed in Adairs comments I do accept them as probably being realistic.

However, I do not have enough money to buy a biggish tree that could be considered perfect material to start with. Yamadori trees and field grown trees are £££££ - much more than I can afford. So while my cedar maybe only a "nice garden tree. But not a good bonsai" for me I hope to have hours of fun growing it, pruning it and developing it. It may never win a show, but frankly I'm not made of money to buy elite trees and never will be. But I'll accept my lot.

Thanks all

 

[Adair M]

I hope you take my advice in the spirit in which I’m giving it. I don’t mean to disparage you nor your tree. I’m just pointing out that it has issues that will take you a long time to fix. The fastest way to fix them would be with several well placed grafts. If this tree inspires you to learn to do that, well, it would certainly be worth the investment of your time and money.

Someone mentioned Eric Schrader earlier. Eric is a friend of mine. He started learning from Boon long before I did. Anyway, he brought a couple JBP rough stock to a Boon workshop, and asked Boon what he should do with them. They started devising plans for raffia, heavy bends with rebar, and grafts, when Boon stppped and said, “if we do all that, we might have something we can start to work with in 6 to 8 years. Or... we can just start with seeds”.

And that was how Eric’s “A few pine seeds 6 years later” thread was started.

Those poor rough JBP were the catalyst that started Eric’s epic pines!

ya never know...

 

[AndyJ]

It was me who mentioned Eric as I'd seen an article on Phutu about his cedar - he said he'd done a few approach grafts to correct poor branching.

I do try take your advice in the spirit it's meant @Adair M but I was disappointed you made the comments in that way when at that point you knew I'd bought the tree. But hey-ho never mind.

 

[Adair M]

It was me who mentioned Eric as I'd seen an article on Phutu about his cedar - he said he'd done a few approach grafts to correct poor branching.

I do try take your advice in the spirit it's meant @Adair M but I was disappointed you made the comments in that way when at that point you knew I'd bought the tree. But hey-ho never mind.

Well, I still think it was, unfortunately, a mistake. But, I think you can learn from it.

give it as much sun as you can.

Good luck!

 

[Woocash]

Thanks Frank. Starting to think I’ve wasted my money with this ..... I guess I’ve got a long journey in front of me trying to turn a sows ear into a silk purse.....

Aw man! Don’t be down on yourself for it or you’ll never be happy with it. You were obviously excited enough to spend the money so enjoy it. It may have flaws but it’s still a nice tree

 

[Forsoothe!]

Just in case OP doesn't want to set fire to this tree yet, here are some virt modifications and comments which are do-able. Naturally, if you'd rather wait for the perfect tree to come along, just set fire to this one and buy a gun because while there may be better candidates out there, the likelihood of you having access to them (it) is nil. The number of better trees having been posted here is indicative of what is actually out there.

 

[arjun]

How can you make this statement without knowing the price or how the tree will be trained.
If you are looking for "G" like perfection, no it does not have it. But I think most people would say its a great tree.
If it was affordable for me I would buy it with or without the branch that offends you so.

I can absolutely relate to your comment about critiquing a tree without knowing the price. When I started bonsai a few years ago I used to definitely get excited when I got a tree for cheap. But slowly I realized price shouldn't be my criteria when buying a trees as some trees have good bones and others don't. There is a reason why a seller will sell a tree for cheap. IMO it's better to buy 1 pre-bonsai which has good bones vs multiple trees with faults. Or else you will end up like me and having to put some trees in the ground and waiting for eternity lol.
*above opinions are of an amateur bonsai practitioner and I mean no harm to anyone.

 

[Adair M]

I can absolutely relate to your comment about critiquing a tree without knowing the price. When I started bonsai a few years ago I used to definitely get excited when I got a tree for cheap. But slowly I realized price shouldn't be my criteria when buying a trees as some trees have good bones and others don't. There is a reason why a seller will sell a tree for cheap. IMO it's better to buy 1 pre-bonsai which has good bones vs multiple trees with faults. Or else you will end up like me and having to put some trees in the ground and waiting for eternity lol.
*above opinions are of an amateur bonsai practitioner and I mean no harm to anyone.

Arjun, one of the ways the Japanese have so many really good bonsai is they start large numbers of them. Grow them for a few years (either in pots or in the ground), then go through them and cull. Rejecting most, and then just keeping and working with only a few.

we don’t have that industry yet, so we have to do the culling by being very selective in what we choose to work with.

Im not saying this to say that you have to buy more expensive starter material. Sure, you can buy better stock by spending more, but you can still buy starter material affordably. You just have to be selective and not purchase the “first thing you see”. (Unless that “first thing” is a great deal! Lol!!!)

 

[arjun]

Arjun, one of the ways the Japanese have so many really good bonsai is they start large numbers of them. Grow them for a few years (either in pots or in the ground), then go through them and cull. Rejecting most, and then just keeping and working with only a few.

we don’t have that industry yet, so we have to do the culling by being very selective in what we choose to work with.

Im not saying this to say that you have to buy more expensive starter material. Sure, you can buy better stock by spending more, but you can still buy starter material affordably. You just have to be selective and not purchase the “first thing you see”. (Unless that “first thing” is a great deal! Lol!!!)

Oh, I am agreeing with your comments! We are not the same page, one should absolutely be selective. I was just mentioning that with time I have learned that once shouldn't just buy what is cheap and let price cloud your judgment

 

[AndyJ]

After much angst and thought, I have decided to cancel the order of this cedar. All things considered, not least the thoughts expressed by members on here, I’m not good enough a bonsai enthusiast to be able to take this on. The seller has kindly agreed to cancel the order and give me a refund.

Thanks all for posting your comments and thoughts

Andy

 

[Adair M]

After much angst and thought, I have decided to cancel the order of this cedar. All things considered, not least the thoughts expressed by members on here, I’m not good enough a bonsai enthusiast to be able to take this on. The seller has kindly agreed to cancel the order and give me a refund.

Thanks all for posting your comments and thoughts

Andy

Andy, that was very kind of him!
Perhaps he has something else in his inventory that’s better?