Blue spruce
- Thread starter Rod
- Start date
Being that you are in a good zone for it, I would plant it in the ground for a couple of years and let it thicken up. After that time you can choose a place to chop it and start with a new leader and leave it in the ground to heal and continue to get bigger. After a few of the above cycles you should have an incredible tree to work with.
Also, the soil looks like it is retaining a ton of water but it may just be an optical illusion. In any case I would try to slip pot it into a large grow box if you can't plant it in the ground. I wouldn't do any root work at this time of year but I imagine you would be ok with making some small branch selection decisions and cutting off what you definitely will not be able to use (multiple branches from one location would be the main things I would look for). If you do cut off a few branches I would leave a few inches of the branch and then clean it up in early spring, as long as it is healthy,
Also, the soil looks like it is retaining a ton of water but it may just be an optical illusion. In any case I would try to slip pot it into a large grow box if you can't plant it in the ground. I wouldn't do any root work at this time of year but I imagine you would be ok with making some small branch selection decisions and cutting off what you definitely will not be able to use (multiple branches from one location would be the main things I would look for). If you do cut off a few branches I would leave a few inches of the branch and then clean it up in early spring, as long as it is healthy,
Colorado
Masterpiece
I prefer to work on spruce in the spring as the buds just start to show some green needles emerging from underneath the bud sheath. My plan for this tree would be:
Spring 2023: repot into pumice-based mix. Could be APL, could be just pumice and lava, pumice and akadama. Doesn’t matter that much, just that it’s pumice-heavy. Let it recover for the year.
Spring 2024: Major branch removal and initial styling, assuming it demonstrates health and vigor after the spring 2023 repot.
Regarding styling, here’s one of my nursery spruce for inspiration - it looked about like yours when I got it. Of course there are many other options…endless options, really!
It has a descent bend in the trunk about 6” up. It also has great radial nabari about 5 nice size roots about 5” long trunk is 3”, so the pot it’s in is about 14”. Dose this need to be reduced, or is a 14-16” pot the correct size for a tree this big. Just wanting to know how much work I’ll need to do in the future. I was looking into the possibility of doing a slant. That is a good looking tree you have.
I had just unloaded it from the truck and it felt like it hadn’t been watered in a quite a few days, so it was just watered, that’s when I found 5 radial roots around the tree and washed some of the soil back 2 are a 1/2” and 3 are a 1/4” thick. Trunk is 3” thick right now and from one side it dose have a bit of reverse taper will the roots thicken base any?
Can I wire a little to know what branches I want to remove, there are probably 10 branches to remove so I don’t get any reverse taper.
Also would it be better to just wait till late winter, early spring and do the first major cut and wire?
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
I’ve got a lot to do in early spring plant 40 trident maples on metal plates, making a DAS forest with a fallen tree semi raft stile in the middle, a bird nest spruce.
Ininaatigoons
Shohin
Yes. Spring is the busiest time, but well worth the efforts. Spring is the best time to repot. The good news is that once the roots are in order after a few years you'll be on root maintenance instead of root work and ready for some more new trees!
James W.
Chumono
If I wait till 2024 to prune it will I risk reverse taper, in two spots I have quite a few branches it’s not swelled to much now branch removal would keep that from happening, just asking
Colorado
Masterpiece
Ininaatigoons
Shohin
Wait. what? When did the repotting get delayed until 2024? I thought we were talking in a few months.
Still repotting in spring. It’s I real sandy soil right now and drains pretty good shouldn’t take much to change to good soil. Am I bare rooting it or just combing it out and not touching main ball, or slightly reducing
Ininaatigoons
Shohin
I thought the rule of balance always applies. If you have need for a lot of root work then you have to try to balance with how much you take off the top. You don't know until you see it. Then major wiring has to be done the following year after major work on most species. Good news is Spruce are soft and easy to wire. Bad news is Spruce are soft and like to spring back to straight and grow upwards. So wiring the same branches can take a few applications.
So what dose this mean. If I cut roots I have to cut back part of tree to match roots? If I take off 30% of the roots then 30% of branches need to be removed? Not that I’m getting confused ( but I am) but I know the more experienced person has there way of doing things. I just want to do the right thing with this tree. I want to see it become a decent bonsai in my life time
Ininaatigoons
Shohin
That is my best advice. I know people that push the limits and are successful, but... Yes, I am saying spring is the best time and if you take 30% bottom you need to take at least 30% off the top. OK here comes the grammer patrol!
Colorado
Masterpiece
Personally I do not subscribe to this for spruce. I don’t remove any foliage when I repot a spruce. Has always worked well for me. To each their own, I suppose.
I can understand that the tree has a balance right now, and what it was now keeps it growing so if the root system is smaller it will struggle to keep 100% of tree alive, so cutting part of tree back seems to make sense. Next question is I’ve heard people putting trees in pond baskets for training, remove part of the roots and the added air that gets to the roots increase growth. Is this something you would consider? It has to go into some sort of training pot first, right?
James W.
Chumono
Your tree was not grown in that pot, it was field grow and dropped into the pot. It does not have the same "balance" as if you collected it or bought a pot grown tree. Do not try to "balance" it, just repot it next spring and wait for it to recover. If it is currently in sandy mix (mine were) the soil will wash off easily and the tree can be nearly bare rooted next spring. Don't work very hard at trying to clean the roots, be very gentle and don't be afraid to leave soil that is stuck to roots. It should go into a container that will just barely hold it's current rootball - box, pot, basket, whatever you are comfortable with.
After the repot next year the tree will be trying to recover and will not grow much and should not develop any more inverse taper than it already has. It will recover quicker if you do not prune it. Wait until you see some real vigor before pruning.
Listen to @Colorado.
The reason spruce are not recommended as beginners' trees is not because the techniques are so difficult but because results are so slow. Wired branches do set, but it can take years. New roots grow slowly and seem to take forever to fill a new pot. You have read that for evergreens do one insult per year? For spruce you should have at least one full growing cycle between each "insult".
