I took about half the roots off. There were no roots in the center of it. Just mainly on the edges of pot. It’s put out a lot of foliage now.
Blue spruce
- Thread starter Rod
- Start date
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
Hoping so but time will tell I guess. Thanks
Can anyone tell me when I should be out of the woods with this tree. Foliage looks great right now. Watering regularly. There is no needle die back, and it’s a little over a month when the roots were cut back. When will I know it made it. Thanks
James W.
Chumono
Looks good for now.
I would treat it gently the rest of this year, at least partial shade all summer. Regular fertilizer, plenty of water.
I have found that I am never out of the danger zone on my trees, they can choose to go belly up at any time. As soon as I relax a little something goes wrong.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Thanks for the encouragement. Now this spring I need help deciding what to cut back to for a design.
Here are some pictures of the spruce tree going into fall. Just wondering if you think it looks strong enough to possibly start styling this spring new growth seems good not sure if it’s strong enough yet. Inter needles look a bit yellow, but that maybe normal. Size of new growth is smaller also.
Leo in N E Illinois
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@Rod
Yellow tips of needles more than 12 months old is not a big deal.
However, if my eyes are not deceiving me, in this most recent photo, some of this year's current growth has yellow needle tips. That is not good, that is a sign of issues, possibly insufficient roots, or an episode of drought? It could also be a sign that you should inspect closer for insects. Though I can't see any obvious insects pests. Just take a good look and evaluate., Yellow needle tips on this year's current growth is a warning sign something is wrong or if not wrong, less than ideal.
Will it be strong enough to work on in spring 2024? If you have "blue shiners" everywhere, meaning lots of nice bright blue healthy buds, multiple, meaning 3 or more, buds growing on every branch tip, then you are good to go. If you only have ones and twos on the strongest branches, and the yellow needle tips have gotten worse than this photo, then your tree will need an additional growing season to recover. Check back to these photos when deciding in 2024.
With spruce, if you are not sure, it never hurts to give it another year to recover. They are slow trees to work with.
About inverse taper. With blue spruce, almost ALL of the blue spruce sold that have bright blue foliage are grafted trees. Your tree is bright enough that I would guess it was grafted. If it had a cultivar name in single quotes when you bought it, for example Picea pungens 'Blue Pearl' or 'Fat Albert' , the name in single quotes would be the cultivar name of the scion grafted onto the understock. The understock could be anything, often it is just a common seed grown blue spruce, but it could be any of a dozen spruce species used for understock in commercial nurseries.
Seed grown blue spruce will often be green to gray in color. The much sought after "blue color" is really only a one in 1000 occurrence when grown from seed. There are seed strains that are somewhat blue, but yours seems blue enough that I suspect that your zone of "inverse taper" is really the graft union. Is this a fatal flaw as bonsai? Not at all. Bill Valavanis has or had a wonderful blue spruce he displayed for many years with a noticeable graft union. It was well healed and not too distracting, so it was accepted as unavoidable in this type of tree. So my advice would be to ignore the inverse taper, or if it really bothers you, train a branch to have a little foliage cross the trunk at the right height to hide the graft union.
Yellow tips of needles more than 12 months old is not a big deal.
However, if my eyes are not deceiving me, in this most recent photo, some of this year's current growth has yellow needle tips. That is not good, that is a sign of issues, possibly insufficient roots, or an episode of drought? It could also be a sign that you should inspect closer for insects. Though I can't see any obvious insects pests. Just take a good look and evaluate., Yellow needle tips on this year's current growth is a warning sign something is wrong or if not wrong, less than ideal.
Will it be strong enough to work on in spring 2024? If you have "blue shiners" everywhere, meaning lots of nice bright blue healthy buds, multiple, meaning 3 or more, buds growing on every branch tip, then you are good to go. If you only have ones and twos on the strongest branches, and the yellow needle tips have gotten worse than this photo, then your tree will need an additional growing season to recover. Check back to these photos when deciding in 2024.
With spruce, if you are not sure, it never hurts to give it another year to recover. They are slow trees to work with.
About inverse taper. With blue spruce, almost ALL of the blue spruce sold that have bright blue foliage are grafted trees. Your tree is bright enough that I would guess it was grafted. If it had a cultivar name in single quotes when you bought it, for example Picea pungens 'Blue Pearl' or 'Fat Albert' , the name in single quotes would be the cultivar name of the scion grafted onto the understock. The understock could be anything, often it is just a common seed grown blue spruce, but it could be any of a dozen spruce species used for understock in commercial nurseries.
Seed grown blue spruce will often be green to gray in color. The much sought after "blue color" is really only a one in 1000 occurrence when grown from seed. There are seed strains that are somewhat blue, but yours seems blue enough that I suspect that your zone of "inverse taper" is really the graft union. Is this a fatal flaw as bonsai? Not at all. Bill Valavanis has or had a wonderful blue spruce he displayed for many years with a noticeable graft union. It was well healed and not too distracting, so it was accepted as unavoidable in this type of tree. So my advice would be to ignore the inverse taper, or if it really bothers you, train a branch to have a little foliage cross the trunk at the right height to hide the graft union.
When I put it in this box I removed quite a few root worms. That is why I took the root ball back as far as I did. Do you think they could be still there and if so what would be the best treatment at this point to ensure roots are ok.
I know nothing about root worms but would think removing a large amount of soil AND roots is NOT the answer. You were lucky doing that the first time IMO. There is probably a way to drench this tree with an insecticide that will kill the worms, but you might have to follow up a bit later to kill worm eggs that hatch after that.
Leo in N E Illinois
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When you say root worms, what do you mean? Earthworms? Beetle grubs? Do these worms have 6 tiny legs near the head? Or are they soft and slimy like earthworms.
Earthworms - more or less harmless. They cause shifting and movement of soil, but don't really eat enough roots to be a problem. No treatment needed. Placing pots on shelf's, block or tables, otherwise elevating off ground will prevent earthworms from colonizing the pot.
Beetle grubs - larvae of various beetles, such as Japanese beetles, and other species. Some can damage root systems. They actually feed on root tissues. Best to treat with pesticide designed to be used as a soil drench. Bayer 3 in One, Sevin, Malathion, and several others work well. Spend time reading labels.
There are other "worms" most are harmless, a few are problems. Certain nematodes are a problem, but diagnosis is tricky, good photos are needed. Most nematodes are harmless. Keeping pots off ground until the ground just about freezes helps. When it's cold enough to heal in for winter, setting pots on ground is safe to do.
Earthworms - more or less harmless. They cause shifting and movement of soil, but don't really eat enough roots to be a problem. No treatment needed. Placing pots on shelf's, block or tables, otherwise elevating off ground will prevent earthworms from colonizing the pot.
Beetle grubs - larvae of various beetles, such as Japanese beetles, and other species. Some can damage root systems. They actually feed on root tissues. Best to treat with pesticide designed to be used as a soil drench. Bayer 3 in One, Sevin, Malathion, and several others work well. Spend time reading labels.
There are other "worms" most are harmless, a few are problems. Certain nematodes are a problem, but diagnosis is tricky, good photos are needed. Most nematodes are harmless. Keeping pots off ground until the ground just about freezes helps. When it's cold enough to heal in for winter, setting pots on ground is safe to do.
Yes they had 6 small legs near head. So probably beetle grubs. I had gotten 5 out of old pot and thought I got them all, but didn’t remove all the dirt to know for sure. I live next to the woods and our ground is full of them.
James W.
Chumono
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
I like this tree. I’m curious as to what you have planned design wise.
Of course getting the tree growing vigorously is #1.
After that, do you foresee chop, or plan to use the whole thing.
Of course getting the tree growing vigorously is #1.
After that, do you foresee chop, or plan to use the whole thing.
I’m thinking of chopping it. Just not sure yet. One day I want it chop it high and the next lower. I’ve also thought of ginning the top and going with an alpine look, but with the way the tree leans I’m not sure it would look believable. The lower branches seem to be getting a little weaker so I’m not sure if I’ll need upper branches to fill in. Hoping I can start making decisions in spring. If you look at past pictures there are areas with bad Wirral’s so that complicates things.
The foliage is very thick and the lower branches and others probably are starving for sunlight. If they don't get some, they will die. As it is, the lower branches look to be to small to be part of any styling in the future. I would sure take the time early next spring to get rid of a bunch of unneeded foliage (branch selection) and get some light to all the branches. You will find that the branches that have good growth in the last 1/2-1/3rd of the branch are not going to have the needed foliage back towards the trunk. Luckily spruce can really go to town back-budding and will begin to fill out pretty fast. I personally think thinning out the foliage is way more important next spring than styling or any other insult. Just my opinion of course.
