Blue spruce

[leatherback]

If I cut roots I have to cut back part of tree to match roots? If I take off 30% of the roots then 30% of branches need to be removed?

No this is not needed. I do not understand why this fairy tale stays alive.
Most of the roots do nothing for the tree. Only the tips of the roots are relevant. And those are mostly removed AND regrow very quicky. Which is why repotting in fall or early spring works well. It is cool, often humid and the pant is under less stress.

Can I wire a little to know what branches I want to remove, there are probably 10 branches to remove so I don’t get any reverse taper.

yeah, Why not. Assuming this thing has been in the current pot for at least a growing season.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Sounds like sound advice.

 

[Rod]

Your tree was not grown in that pot, it was field grow and dropped into the pot. It does not have the same "balance" as if you collected it or bought a pot grown tree. Do not try to "balance" it, just repot it next spring and wait for it to recover. If it is currently in sandy mix (mine were) the soil will wash off easily and the tree can be nearly bare rooted next spring. Don't work very hard at trying to clean the roots, be very gentle and don't be afraid to leave soil that is stuck to roots. It should go into a container that will just barely hold it's current rootball - box, pot, basket, whatever you are comfortable with.
After the repot next year the tree will be trying to recover and will not grow much and should not develop any more inverse taper than it already has. It will recover quicker if you do not prune it. Wait until you see some real vigor before pruning.
Listen to @Colorado.

The reason spruce are not recommended as beginners' trees is not because the techniques are so difficult but because results are so slow. Wired branches do set, but it can take years. New roots grow slowly and seem to take forever to fill a new pot. You have read that for evergreens do one insult per year? For spruce you should have at least one full growing cycle between each "insult".

Do I want to bare root it, I’ve heard that there are enzymes in the soil that help with tree growth and water in take for both spruce and pines. Not sure if this applies to the way this tree was put in a pot of it has any original soil. I’m in this tree for the long haul and want to learn as much as possible, so not killing it is first then developing second. Thank you all for your guidance more is appreciated

 

[Rod]

No this is not needed. I do not understand why this fairy tale stays alive.
Most of the roots do nothing for the tree. Only the tips of the roots are relevant. And those are mostly removed AND regrow very quicky. Which is why repotting in fall or early spring works well. It is cool, often humid and the pant is under less stress.



yeah, Why not. Assuming this thing has been in the current pot for at least a growing season.

Thanks I’m learning a lot, repot in spring, then prune when it starts to grow vigorously thanks

 

[Rod]

Your tree was not grown in that pot, it was field grow and dropped into the pot. It does not have the same "balance" as if you collected it or bought a pot grown tree. Do not try to "balance" it, just repot it next spring and wait for it to recover. If it is currently in sandy mix (mine were) the soil will wash off easily and the tree can be nearly bare rooted next spring. Don't work very hard at trying to clean the roots, be very gentle and don't be afraid to leave soil that is stuck to roots. It should go into a container that will just barely hold it's current rootball - box, pot, basket, whatever you are comfortable with.
After the repot next year the tree will be trying to recover and will not grow much and should not develop any more inverse taper than it already has. It will recover quicker if you do not prune it. Wait until you see some real vigor before pruning.
Listen to @Colorado.

The reason spruce are not recommended as beginners' trees is not because the techniques are so difficult but because results are so slow. Wired branches do set, but it can take years. New roots grow slowly and seem to take forever to fill a new pot. You have read that for evergreens do one insult per year? For spruce you should have at least one full growing cycle between each "insult".

So every other year between insults?

 

[Rod]

Your tree was not grown in that pot, it was field grow and dropped into the pot. It does not have the same "balance" as if you collected it or bought a pot grown tree. Do not try to "balance" it, just repot it next spring and wait for it to recover. If it is currently in sandy mix (mine were) the soil will wash off easily and the tree can be nearly bare rooted next spring. Don't work very hard at trying to clean the roots, be very gentle and don't be afraid to leave soil that is stuck to roots. It should go into a container that will just barely hold it's current rootball - box, pot, basket, whatever you are comfortable with.
After the repot next year the tree will be trying to recover and will not grow much and should not develop any more inverse taper than it already has. It will recover quicker if you do not prune it. Wait until you see some real vigor before pruning.
Listen to @Colorado.

The reason spruce are not recommended as beginners' trees is not because the techniques are so difficult but because results are so slow. Wired branches do set, but it can take years. New roots grow slowly and seem to take forever to fill a new pot. You have read that for evergreens do one insult per year? For spruce you should have at least one full growing cycle between each "insult".

So every other year between insults

 

[leatherback]

Thanks I’m learning a lot, repot in spring, then prune when it starts to grow vigorously thanks

I think this is not what I wrote

 

[James W.]

Do I want to bare root it, I’ve heard that there are enzymes in the soil that help with tree growth and water in take for both spruce and pines. Not sure if this applies to the way this tree was put in a pot of it has any original soil. I’m in this tree for the long haul and want to learn as much as possible, so not killing it is first then developing second. Thank you all for your guidance more is appreciated

Do not purposely try to completely bare root it but the sandy mix may just fall and rinse off when you repot. Don't sweat it. Leave some soil if it's easier. Be gentle and leave as many of the tiny roots as possible. If the soil tuns out to be sticky clay don't try to wash and pick it all off, just remove what has no roots in it, take your time and be gentle. It may be that in 5 and 7 years you need to HBR it to finally get the last of the original soil off, that's OK.
If the tree is like others I have gotten from Lowes and Home Depot it is in it's original soil. The growers have a tree spade that cuts a plug just the size of the pot so they just spade it up and plop it in the pot. This could have been done a week ago or 6 months ago.

If the tree responds well you could remove a few branches after summer of '23. @Colorado says spring '24 for it's initial styling IFF it recovers well, he knows what he is talking about. You could do structural pruning in the spring of '24 and wait for late summer to do an initial styling. Or you can prune a couple of times in '24 and wire it in 2025. Timing should depend on the response of the tree, pruning and/or wiring a weak tree will slow it's response and development, possibly to point of death. (Possibly I have become overly cautious)

 

[James W.]

Here are links to a couple threads that might be similar to your project. One is mine, you can learn from my mistakes. Both are Black Hills Spruce which have a little different water requirements.
My black hills spruce
Learning black hills spruce

 

[Rod]

Personally, I doubt it’s going to change that much in the matter of a year. But if there is a really critical area you could remove a branch or two prior to 2024 without too much risk to the health of the tree.

Colorado I have another question, I do have a 10’x20’ greenhouse glass on south end plastic over 90% it’s unheated. Can I push seasonal work by keeping it in there. I hear pros say the reason they can work on the trees they do is they have a greenhouse. But I have a greenhouse without a lot of knowledge of bonsai. I do start my veggies early.

 

[Tycoss]

I've dealt with blue and other spruce in some numbers and never bare root or "balance". Keeping as much foliage as possible actually aids root recovery with picea. FYI, my experience is mostly with yamadori.

 

[Colorado]

Colorado I have another question, I do have a 10’x20’ greenhouse glass on south end plastic over 90% it’s unheated. Can I push seasonal work by keeping it in there. I hear pros say the reason they can work on the trees they do is they have a greenhouse. But I have a greenhouse without a lot of knowledge of bonsai. I do start my veggies early.

I do not have a greenhouse, so I cannot speak from personal experience. It is my understanding that, yes, you can push seasonal work if you have a proper greenhouse to keep the tree in all winter. I would love to have a greenhouse like that someday

 

[Rod]

This morning I was curious about root system so I cut 3 1” squares out of bottom 1/3 of the pot roots seem to fill pot and starting to circle around it with a healthy root system, I don’t know if that means it’s been in this pot for a while or it’s just growing well

 

[Rod]

I've dealt with blue and other spruce in some numbers and never bare root or "balance". Keeping as much foliage as possible actually aids root recovery with picea. FYI, my experience is mostly with yamadori.

Field grown and yamadori I don’t quite understand the difference,it would seem to me there would be little difference and field would be less stressed when dug and put in a pot. Just trying to understand. Thanks

 

[Rod]

I do not have a greenhouse, so I cannot speak from personal experience. It is my understanding that, yes, you can push seasonal work if you have a proper greenhouse to keep the tree in all winter. I would love to have a greenhouse like that someday

It’s nothing special it’s a Menards carport with plastic sides and 2 patio doors at the other end. Don’t laugh I had the carport for a different use had to put new plastic on this year but I’m in it for 250.00 total.

 

[Paradox]

This morning I was curious about root system so I cut 3 1” squares out of bottom 1/3 of the pot roots seem to fill pot and starting to circle around it with a healthy root system, I don’t know if that means it’s been in this pot for a while or it’s just growing wellView attachment 461202View attachment 461203View attachment 461204View attachment 461205

Good lord, stop messing with it!
Leave it be until spring as others have said already numerous times.

Make sure you plug that hole up well now because now it's a spot that can freeze easier.

 

[Rod]

Good lord, stop messing with it!
Leave it be until spring as others have said already numerous times.

Make sure you plug that hole up well now because now it's a spot that can freeze easier.

I’m going to heel it in for winter in my greenhouse that why it’s in the bottom 1/3 and I did put the plugs back in I figured the extra drainage wouldn’t hurt.

 

[Rod]

Personally I do not subscribe to this for spruce. I don’t remove any foliage when I repot a spruce. Has always worked well for me. To each their own, I suppose.

Well I put it in a box a few weeks ago. While I was taking roots off bottom I found a lot of root worms trying to get rid of them this is what I ended up with. I took a lot of dirt off there wasn’t a lot of roots. Do you think it will live?

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Well... How much root did you take? If you didn't take that much it will now thrive. If you took a lot. Keep it in shade for a couple weeks and fingers crossed.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Well, RIP. So much for that tree.