Blueberry Bonsai Soil

[bobbywett]

Hello Everyon,

I’m getting ready to repot this blueberry into a smaller container. Can I use my deciduous soil mixture or do blueberry trees prefer a different type of soil?

Its currently potted in the soil in which I purchased it about 4 years ago.

Thanks for any help.


Bobby

 

[Carol 83]

@Leo in N E Illinois is the blueberry expert here.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Greetings Bobby. I was a part owner of a blueberry farm, finalized the sale of it Friday. So now I'm retired from owning a blueberry farm.

Blueberries like a acidic soil, more acidic than what azalea like. The current 4 year old mix looks like bark and perlite. That can work. Your plant looks healthy. So if you have more of the mix it is currently in, you can use that.

On the farm, the idea mix for plants too small to put in the field, we use Canadian peat and fir bark, in near equal proportions, perlite or pumice and about 5% total volume hardwood sawdust, and about 5% horticultural charcoal or biochar. By volume, tablespoon (15 ml) elemental sulfur per gallon ( 4 liters) of mix.

Mix ingredients except sulfur, while dry. Sift with sieve to eliminate fines. Any particles that go thru window screen should be discarded. Smaller than 3/32 inch discard. Moisten mix. Add sulfur, mix, then it is ready to use.

For growing out, use the mix as is. For blueberries in shallow bonsai pots, add more pumice.

This mix is good for about 2 to 3 years. Use an "acid fertilizer", with higher nitrogen number. All ammoniacal or amino acid source for nitrogen is preferred, blueberries don't absorb nitrates efficiently. Organic fertilizers, such as fish emulsion are good for this reason.

If you know your well or municipal water's chemistry, you can take advantage of it. If your water is naturally soft, low total alkalinity, you can get away with your deciduous soil blend. If your water is medium in calcium content, then you do have to use a peat and bark based mix. If you have hard water, high calcium, you should collect rainwater to use instead of using hard water.

Fertilize lightly. Low dose rates Stop fertilizer when flowers open, let fruit get ripe before resuming fertilizer. Most important time to fertilize is after fruit harvest thru into autumn. Stop fertilizer in autumn.

You plant looks healthy, so make no drastic changes in your care.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The standard bonsai media for azalea is Kanuma. If you have soft water, or use rainwater for your bonsai, Kanuma will work for blueberries, but only if you have soft water. If your water is medium or hard, higher calcium, Kanuma is not acidic enough for blueberries. Here you must use the peat and bark blend.

The hardwood sawdust is to feed the mycorrhizae symbiotic with blueberries.

Elemental sulfur is available at any nursery catering to organic vegetable growers. The coarse grind is for acidifying soils, the very fine grind is an "old tyme" fungicide. Either will work as soil acidifier.

 

[Shogun610]

Greetings Bobby. I was a part owner of a blueberry farm, finalized the sale of it Friday. So now I'm retired from owning a blueberry farm.

Blueberries like a acidic soil, more acidic than what azalea like. The current 4 year old mix looks like bark and perlite. That can work. Your plant looks healthy. So if you have more of the mix it is currently in, you can use that.

On the farm, the idea mix for plants too small to put in the field, we use Canadian peat and fir bark, in near equal proportions, perlite or pumice and about 5% total volume hardwood sawdust, and about 5% horticultural charcoal or biochar. By volume, tablespoon (15 ml) elemental sulfur per gallon ( 4 liters) of mix.

Mix ingredients except sulfur, while dry. Sift with sieve to eliminate fines. Any particles that go thru window screen should be discarded. Smaller than 3/32 inch discard. Moisten mix. Add sulfur, mix, then it is ready to use.

For growing out, use the mix as is. For blueberries in shallow bonsai pots, add more pumice.

This mix is good for about 2 to 3 years. Use an "acid fertilizer", with higher nitrogen number. All ammoniacal or amino acid source for nitrogen is preferred, blueberries don't absorb nitrates efficiently. Organic fertilizers, such as fish emulsion are good for this reason.

If you know your well or municipal water's chemistry, you can take advantage of it. If your water is naturally soft, low total alkalinity, you can get away with your deciduous soil blend. If your water is medium in calcium content, then you do have to use a peat and bark based mix. If you have hard water, high calcium, you should collect rainwater to use instead of using hard water.

Fertilize lightly. Low dose rates Stop fertilizer when flowers open, let fruit get ripe before resuming fertilizer. Most important time to fertilize is after fruit harvest thru into autumn. Stop fertilizer in autumn.

You plant looks healthy, so make no drastic changes in your care.

Are you selling any blueberry pre bonsai? Very cool I have never thought of that... is this a relatively new fruiting bonsai idea?

 

[bobbywett]

Greetings Bobby. I was a part owner of a blueberry farm, finalized the sale of it Friday. So now I'm retired from owning a blueberry farm.

Blueberries like a acidic soil, more acidic than what azalea like. The current 4 year old mix looks like bark and perlite. That can work. Your plant looks healthy. So if you have more of the mix it is currently in, you can use that.

On the farm, the idea mix for plants too small to put in the field, we use Canadian peat and fir bark, in near equal proportions, perlite or pumice and about 5% total volume hardwood sawdust, and about 5% horticultural charcoal or biochar. By volume, tablespoon (15 ml) elemental sulfur per gallon ( 4 liters) of mix.

Mix ingredients except sulfur, while dry. Sift with sieve to eliminate fines. Any particles that go thru window screen should be discarded. Smaller than 3/32 inch discard. Moisten mix. Add sulfur, mix, then it is ready to use.

For growing out, use the mix as is. For blueberries in shallow bonsai pots, add more pumice.

This mix is good for about 2 to 3 years. Use an "acid fertilizer", with higher nitrogen number. All ammoniacal or amino acid source for nitrogen is preferred, blueberries don't absorb nitrates efficiently. Organic fertilizers, such as fish emulsion are good for this reason.

If you know your well or municipal water's chemistry, you can take advantage of it. If your water is naturally soft, low total alkalinity, you can get away with your deciduous soil blend. If your water is medium in calcium content, then you do have to use a peat and bark based mix. If you have hard water, high calcium, you should collect rainwater to use instead of using hard water.

Fertilize lightly. Low dose rates Stop fertilizer when flowers open, let fruit get ripe before resuming fertilizer. Most important time to fertilize is after fruit harvest thru into autumn. Stop fertilizer in autumn.

You plant looks healthy, so make no drastic changes in your care.

Thank you for the in-depth response! I believe I’ll use my deciduous blend and add some peat, then keep an eye on her. I’ve been watering it with our tap water regularly since we got her with no ill effects. It does sit out in the rain as well.

How do blueberries handle root pruning? Will they tolerate bare rooting and cutback?

 

[bobbywett]

The standard bonsai media for azalea is Kanuma. If you have soft water, or use rainwater for your bonsai, Kanuma will work for blueberries, but only if you have soft water. If your water is medium or hard, higher calcium, Kanuma is not acidic enough for blueberries. Here you must use the peat and bark blend.

The hardwood sawdust is to feed the mycorrhizae symbiotic with blueberries.

Elemental sulfur is available at any nursery catering to organic vegetable growers. The coarse grind is for acidifying soils, the very fine grind is an "old tyme" fungicide. Either will work as soil acidifier.

Here is a copy of my township water hardness and alkalinity. Would this be considered hard?

 

[ShadyStump]

Tracking the thread for ideas on how we might plant blueberries in southern Colorado.
I'm not certain how direct the correlation between basic water and hard water is, but you're very much on the alkiline end of things. You'll need to treat your water or soil generously to reduce that pH to blueberry levels. (Doesn't PA have allot of limestone in its geology? That might explain how it's both a wetter climate and harder water than here.)
If you remember from science class back when, low pH is acidic, high is basic. Once you're much outside +or- 1 from that neutral 7 point you're getting caustic.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

View attachment 362993


Here is a copy of my township water hardness and alkalinity. Would this be considered hard?

View attachment 362993

Bobby, your water is EXCELLENT. At the low end of hardness, it is as soft as rain water. When you are at the high end, the 196 ppm as calcium carbonate is comfortably in the medium to medium soft range. I'm envious of your water quality. You can get away with a wider range of media, because your water is very low calcium.

Please ignore comments that your water pH is high. BY LAW, all municipalities are required to buffer their water to pH 7.8 to 8.5 in order to prevent lead from leaching into the water supply. If your pH was less than 7.5 your city could be taken to court like Flint Michigan.

When your water tds is low, it takes very little to change the pH. Blueberries will have no trouble with your water.

Your deciduous mix with some sifted peat added should be fine.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Tracking the thread for ideas on how we might plant blueberries in southern Colorado.
I'm not certain how direct the correlation between basic water and hard water is, but you're very much on the alkiline end of things. You'll need to treat your water or soil generously to reduce that pH to blueberry levels. (Doesn't PA have allot of limestone in its geology? That might explain how it's both a wetter climate and harder water than here.)
If you remember from science class back when, low pH is acidic, high is basic. Once you're much outside +or- 1 from that neutral 7 point you're getting caustic.

It is difficult thumb typing to explain pH adequately, pH is a complex topic. Not intuitively obvious. The truth is pH for horticulture is trivial, or a derivative measurement of the important factor - calcium and magnesium content of the water. The direct measurement of calcium and magnesium content of water is Total Alkalinity, usually expressed as milligrams per liter as calcium carbonate. Alternately written as parts per million as calcium carbonate. The numeric value doesn't change from mg/liter to parts per million.

Buffer capacity is the resistance of a solution to change pH. Pure water, with low total dissolved solids, as in the 12 ppm as calcium carbonate example above, has almost zero buffer capacity. Carbon dioxide from ones breath could lower the pH from 7.7 to 6.8. With low TDS water, pH is a trivial problem. At the high end of Bobby's water report, the 198 total dissolved solids as calcium carbonate ( essentially total alkalinity) is still moderate. It would not take much to neutralize that amount of Alkalinity. Roughly 0.2 grams of 12 M hydrochloric acid per liter, roughly 5 drops.

BUT, no need to adjust. The reason is that plants have some capacity to actively adjust the pH of the soil moisture film around their root tips all by themselves. In a moderate situation like Bobby's, the plants can cope, the peat added also helps. Bobby doesn't need to do anything. Part of the evidence he doesn't need to adjust pH is he has already been growing this blueberry for 4 years. His water has been good enough for the last 4 years, his blueberries look healthy, no need to change what is working well.

Now you are in southern Colorado, are you east in the high plains? Or west in the mountains? Colorado water quality ranges from snowmelt which is as pure as rain water, to some well water sources that are greater than 1400 parts per million as calcium carbonate. Water so hard that if a fish jumps, it will bounce twice before going back under. And these very hard water sources can leave lime deposits or gypsum deposits. Gypsum is calcium sulfate. Lime is calcium carbonate.

@ShadyStump - if you have access to your municipal water quality report, or a water analysis from your well water, if you share it, I could help you determine what you would have to do to raise blueberries or for that matter, we could talk about most any species.

Make note of what trees and shrubs grow well in your landscape. This can give clues as to soil characteristics and your water quality. What is doing well with your water?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Tracking the thread for ideas on how we might plant blueberries in southern Colorado.

In Illinois, my soils are derived from glacial till that includes a large amount of limestone. Illinois soils are too high in calcium and magnesium to grow blueberries. That is the reason our blueberry farm was in the sandy soil region of Michigan, because we can not grow blueberries in northern Illinois. Soil is just wrong.

You can grow blueberries in large pots or raised beds. Roughly 25 gallon container, half a wine barrel, or half a 55 gallon plastic drum can hold enough media to raise 1 to 3 highbush blueberry bushes to maturity. At maturity (roughly 4 to 6 feet tall) a blueberry bush can yield 2 to 15 pounds of fruit per year. Use the potting media I described earlier in the thread. With these large pots you don't repot every 2 years. Instead you simply add an additional 1 to 3 inches of fresh bark chips and peat blend. Don't fill the barrel to the top the first year. Start at only 12 to 18 inches depth, and every year top dress with fresh media in the autumn. You can probably go 10 years or more without a total repotting.

The more alkaline your irrigation water, the greater quantity of elemental sulfur you apply as a top dressing. Elemental sulfur slowly breaks down, and when it does it breaks down into sulfonic acids - NOT SULFURIC ACID. There is one oxygen less in sulfonic acid, and it is not as aggressive as sulfuric acid. The free acid will bind up the calcium carbonate, change it to calcium sulfate and essentially neutralize the alkalinity. For my "moderate" situation in Illinois I only need to apply elemental sulfur once a year, and it takes a full year for that sulfur to break down. In Colorado you might need to apply more, or perhaps better, apply the same amount, but apply it more often.

But blueberries can be raised in raised beds or large pots and actually yield enough fruit to supply a home backyard set up. Figure an average of 4 pounds per plant, a row of 10 pot, roughly 20 gallon size each could yield 40 pounds of fruit, enough for the freezer and a fair number of blueberry pies. Or enough for 5 gallons of blueberry wine. My favorite pie is a blend of blueberries and raspberries. That is just an amazing pie.

Some years, especially with good water availability, and just the right amount of fertilizer especially post harvest the previous year, you can get yields as high as 20 pounds per bush, though that is rare, and takes experience to get there.

So send me your water information if you have it. And I will help you design a system.

 

[bobbywett]

Bobby, your water is EXCELLENT. At the low end of hardness, it is as soft as rain water. When you are at the high end, the 196 ppm as calcium carbonate is comfortably in the medium to medium soft range. I'm envious of your water quality. You can get away with a wider range of media, because your water is very low calcium.

Please ignore comments that your water pH is high. BY LAW, all municipalities are required to buffer their water to pH 7.8 to 8.5 in order to prevent lead from leaching into the water supply. If your pH was less than 7.5 your city could be taken to court like Flint Michigan.

When your water tds is low, it takes very little to change the pH. Blueberries will have no trouble with your water.

Your deciduous mix with some sifted peat added should be fine.

Awesome! Thanks for all your help!

 

[ShadyStump]

It is difficult thumb typing to explain pH adequately, pH is a complex topic. Not intuitively obvious. The truth is pH for horticulture is trivial, or a derivative measurement of the important factor - calcium and magnesium content of the water. The direct measurement of calcium and magnesium content of water is Total Alkalinity, usually expressed as milligrams per liter as calcium carbonate. Alternately written as parts per million as calcium carbonate. The numeric value doesn't change from mg/liter to parts per million.

Buffer capacity is the resistance of a solution to change pH. Pure water, with low total dissolved solids, as in the 12 ppm as calcium carbonate example above, has almost zero buffer capacity. Carbon dioxide from ones breath could lower the pH from 7.7 to 6.8. With low TDS water, pH is a trivial problem. At the high end of Bobby's water report, the 198 total dissolved solids as calcium carbonate ( essentially total alkalinity) is still moderate. It would not take much to neutralize that amount of Alkalinity. Roughly 0.2 grams of 12 M hydrochloric acid per liter, roughly 5 drops.

BUT, no need to adjust. The reason is that plants have some capacity to actively adjust the pH of the soil moisture film around their root tips all by themselves. In a moderate situation like Bobby's, the plants can cope, the peat added also helps. Bobby doesn't need to do anything. Part of the evidence he doesn't need to adjust pH is he has already been growing this blueberry for 4 years. His water has been good enough for the last 4 years, his blueberries look healthy, no need to change what is working well.

Now you are in southern Colorado, are you east in the high plains? Or west in the mountains? Colorado water quality ranges from snowmelt which is as pure as rain water, to some well water sources that are greater than 1400 parts per million as calcium carbonate. Water so hard that if a fish jumps, it will bounce twice before going back under. And these very hard water sources can leave lime deposits or gypsum deposits. Gypsum is calcium sulfate. Lime is calcium carbonate.

@ShadyStump - if you have access to your municipal water quality report, or a water analysis from your well water, if you share it, I could help you determine what you would have to do to raise blueberries or for that matter, we could talk about most any species.

Make note of what trees and shrubs grow well in your landscape. This can give clues as to soil characteristics and your water quality. What is doing well with your water?

I began to realize some of this after I wrote that post early in the morning before I'd even gotten my coffee. LOL (Note to self...)

I'm right at the eastern foothills. Our municipal water is sourced from the river through town, and tends to be fairly soft at the tap because it's heavily treated to remove heavy metals. In fact, some years ago I spent a summer between my last stint in the military and going back to college working as a groundskeeper for the water district. They add flocculants by the ton to remove the heavy metals that wind up in the water from snaking through granite mountains. Then gobs of chlorine of course. I forgot to take this into account this morning. There's the water quality report from them, but i don't see anything about pH or hardness. Literally everything else, though.

https://www.canoncity.org/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/161

Since we moved last summer, though, we have access to agricultural irrigation ditches, which are an utter crapshoot hour to hour on the days it comes our way. That's the water we'd be irrigating with, and it would tend to be more alkaline judging by the white deposits sometimes left when the ditch dries up between water days.
The original own of our place had a thing for spruce trees, and there are five or six 40 footers in different places around the property. We had thought about planting our blueberries beneath them where the cast needles tend to make the soil more acidic, and the trees will protect from the scorching 100+ degree F summer days.

 

[Underdog]

Or enough for 5 gallons of blueberry wine.

Still my favorite contributor here. Love you man! LOL I did in fact yesterday just pull my blue berry :bird feeder" from the grow bed and into a large Pot O Bark Long way from making wine tho...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@ShadyStump

I read your municipal water report. I'm "cogitating" a response. The water source is from the Arkansas River. I'm thinking about what that means. In all likely-hood, your water is quite soft when the river is swollen with snowmelt in spring. And judging by the deposits in the irrigation ditches nearby, the river is probably pretty heavy in dissolved solids during low flow.

Tomorrow I'll have more thoughts on how to handle this.

 

[bobbywett]

Bobby, your water is EXCELLENT. At the low end of hardness, it is as soft as rain water. When you are at the high end, the 196 ppm as calcium carbonate is comfortably in the medium to medium soft range. I'm envious of your water quality. You can get away with a wider range of media, because your water is very low calcium.

Please ignore comments that your water pH is high. BY LAW, all municipalities are required to buffer their water to pH 7.8 to 8.5 in order to prevent lead from leaching into the water supply. If your pH was less than 7.5 your city could be taken to court like Flint Michigan.

When your water tds is low, it takes very little to change the pH. Blueberries will have no trouble with your water.

Your deciduous mix with some sifted peat added should be fine.

Do they sell sifted peat, or is there a particular sieve that I should purchase?

 

[ShadyStump]

Do they sell sifted peat, or is there a particular sieve that I should purchase?

We recently bought a bail of peat from our local nursery that is perfectly ready to go. Fine grain, very soft and light. FertiLome brand I think, though I'm not at home to look right now. We mix it roughly 2 or 3 to 1 with perlite for our garden starts.
Short answer, yes.

 

[ShadyStump]

@ShadyStump

I read your municipal water report. I'm "cogitating" a response. The water source is from the Arkansas River. I'm thinking about what that means. In all likely-hood, your water is quite soft when the river is swollen with snowmelt in spring. And judging by the deposits in the irrigation ditches nearby, the river is probably pretty heavy in dissolved solids during low flow.

Tomorrow I'll have more thoughts on how to handle this.

This is essentially true. June, the river is high and mostly clear, but by August, September it's much lower. BTW, our irrigation does not come from the same source, though it's source eventually runs into the river, too.
Water rights in Colorado is still a very hot and convoluted topic, and a sketchy one to bring up in conversation at times. Fist fights between neighbors over who gets the water in which ditch are not unheard of still.

 

[bobbywett]

We recently bought a bail of peat from our local nursery that is perfectly ready to go. Fine grain, very soft and light. FertiLome brand I think, though I'm not at home to look right now. We mix it roughly 2 or 3 to 1 with perlite for our garden starts.
Short answer, yes.

Thank You

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The mesh that is used to keep mosquitoes out, in our window screens is about right. If it goes through window screen, that powder that goes through the screen should be discarded. Fines are bad. You want the "chunky peat".

Sunshine brand Canadian peat moss is not milled, it is not ground up. This is the good peat. or any other brand that is not ground to a powder.

A set of sieves is handy, as uniform particle size makes better bonsai soil. Typical set of sieves for bonsai media is only about 25 to 45 dollars.

Soil Sifter - 145L - Kaneshin - Sumo Bonsai Supply

A Soil Sifter is used to sift your soil before repotting to remove dust and to achieve a unified soil particle size.

sumobonsaisupply.com