Bonsai club members who put problem trees in club auctions

Mike Corazzi

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are inconsiderate and mean. :mad:

Yes. we're new, but discovering that mugos were planted in muck and JPBs with drilled holes should be THEIR mistakes.....not the misfortune of some bidders who might not know better.

An unfortunate experience.

Although CLOSE inspection might have averted this, sometimes people trust the consignors to ...at least... put nice trees in the auctions.
 

JudyB

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Look at the tree up close before you bid would be what I would do. If the tree is good, and you got a deal, the soil can be remedied...
 

Mike Corazzi

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Look at the tree up close before you bid would be what I would do. If the tree is good, and you got a deal, the soil can be remedied...
Good advice. Have done that. Hope it makes it.
T'was my fault. Should look close before buying.

Done with thread.
Guess I can't delete it.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I agree with you my friend. I am so cautious when I post an item for auction - ANY auction - that my buyer normally comes back and says "wow you highlighted so many flaws and then I got the item and it was brand new!"

I don't believe in "let the buyer beware". I believe in "treat others the way you would like to be treated." I'm sorry you had a bad experience. In the interim, perhaps post the tree and let us fix it!

I bought a koi at a club auction once where the koi were packed in plastic bags so it was difficult to inspect them closely. I got the koi home and it had a bent spine - a euthanizable defect. It should NEVER have been listed in any auction, anywhere, at any price. It is the only adult koi I have ever euthanized. But I never beat myself up for being honest. In my opinion, if someone is willing to pimp out their morality for $60... that tells you all you need to know about them.
 
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Mike Corazzi

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Bonsai Nut, your post is encouraging me to continue in the thread.
Thanks for being an honorable gentleman. I won't say that's rare because I hope it isn't, but in some cases it sure is.

ANYHOW...... back to the trees in question.

I posted about the JBP first a while ago.
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/jbp-damage-repair-and-a-candle-question.24929/

I keep looking at how much I had to take off to get to the bottom of the damage of the drilling for the thread graft.

The shape of the tree was what attracted me and I did NOT notice the damage.

So far, what I'm doing (besides hoping a sacrificial top will sprout in the spring and carry some material to the wound is that I looked at the whacking I did so far in that thread and extended it up a bit on to the next branch.
Why?
I dunno. Just hoped that I could elongate the wound to make it appear a BIT more better. Not sure I did though.
The discarded wood is at least and probably MORE than half the thickness of the trunk.

If it doesn't look ok in the spring, I can chop it above the 2 lower branches, and carve the stub of the cutoff trunk.

At this point it's only guessing.

But theres a MAYBE so..... why not?

pix are as is and a chopped virt.
Previous thread might have better pix.

1029160943.jpg chopped trunk.jpg
 

Mike Corazzi

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The next one I was a little leery of, but my wife thought it was so "cute" that she prompted me to bid on it.
It was cheap.
So not a lot of risk.

Twin trunk mugo that .....in my opinion.... had just been taken in the nursery soil and laid on its side with some driftwood SCREWED to the pot (pot shown in branch pic) and it looked to me like half the roots and soil were just open to the elements and sun baking.

I think that's correct as the pictured limb in the blue pot is what I chopped off last night Sure looked DEAD to me.

Although not optimal repotting time, this was an emergency so I put it in a deeper pot that covers the soil completely and there WERE some white roots showing so ....maybe... all is not lost.

While not a terrific repot for style, I think it has the best shot at surviving the insults it has had.

Again, kudos to Bonsai Nut for his attitude. Refreshing. :)1029160944.jpg 1029160956.jpg
 

Bonsai Nut

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As long as you have low growth on a black pine, all is not lost. You can grow an entire new tree from a single low branch if you want to. Just don't do it all at once. Gradually reduce the strength of the upper branches while shifting the strength to the lower ones. Given the awkward straight section in the trunk without branching, you will be better off in the long run, anyway. There was a reason someone was trying a thread graft there, though to be honest, I think even with a branch there you're just putting lipstick on a pig and that trunk section would have had to have been fixed - or else the tree would have had to change design drastically.

That might be a good tree to take to a workshop and ask for help from a pro. Tell him/her your plans and that you want a new design to grow a new tree from the low growth. You might be surprised what you end up with. Sometimes some of the ugly, butchered mistake trees of our past can be coaxed into something really nice - because they don't look like a standard cookie-cutter design.

Never forget - the most important part of the tree is the nebari. Next is the trunk line. As long as the nebari is there and you have low growth on the tree to grow a new trunk, your options are limitless.
 
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Leo in N E Illinois

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I agree, peoples discards should go to compost pile not to the club auction. Even given away for free, you may be harming a beginner's experience of the hobby more than helping.

I ran into this at our orchid society, donations by members to the club auction we more often ''dogs'' that should have been compost, than an orchid with a decent flower. Generally when I buy seedlings of an orchid hybrid, I buy 6, bloom them all, keep one or two, sell or donate medium quality ones, the 2 or 3 worst ones I do compost. But not everyone will do this.
 

justBonsai

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Some of my first trees were purchased from a club auction. I will say that the pricing was reasonable but being a beginner and not knowing any better I pretty much purchased someone's crap material. I would say it took me a good year to know what to look for in trees as well as their potential. Before I would look at a tree and think wow that has a cool trunk and buy it without much other consideration.
 

JudyB

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Some of my first trees were purchased from a club auction. I will say that the pricing was reasonable but being a beginner and not knowing any better I pretty much purchased someone's crap material. I would say it took me a good year to know what to look for in trees as well as their potential. Before I would look at a tree and think wow that has a cool trunk and buy it without much other consideration.
Perhaps it was their learning material as well. As long as it's in good health, I see nothing wrong with passing learning material back to new students.
 

fourteener

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I get rid of my troubled material at auctions all the time. My first question I ask about a tree is always... why is someone getting rid of it, what's the fatal flaw that has put it in a sale? Can it be fixed? How many years to fix it?

Sorry you feel bad about your purchase, but it was a good learning moment for you.

I don't sell off the trees I deem to be my good material.
 

justBonsai

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Perhaps it was their learning material as well. As long as it's in good health, I see nothing wrong with passing learning material back to new students.
Never said there was anything wrong in doing so. As long as people aren't selling a tree with a significant health issue and is appropriately priced its fine. As you mentioned, these trees were largely learning material for me before acquiring better stock.
 

Mike Corazzi

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I get rid of my troubled material at auctions all the time. My first question I ask about a tree is always... why is someone getting rid of it, what's the fatal flaw that has put it in a sale? Can it be fixed? How many years to fix it?

Sorry you feel bad about your purchase, but it was a good learning moment for you.

I don't sell off the trees I deem to be my good material.
What I learned is that our club follows your practice.
Easy cure. Skip next year's auction.
The good trees, like good material in any hobby come from professionals who want repeat sales.
 

Adair M

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What I learned is that our club follows your practice.
Easy cure. Skip next year's auction.
The good trees, like good material in any hobby come from professionals who want repeat sales.
Well,

You never know. Sometimes a member may just want to downsize their collection a bit. And sell decent trees.
 

fourteener

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What I learned is that our club follows your practice.
Easy cure. Skip next year's auction.
The good trees, like good material in any hobby come from professionals who want repeat sales.


I never skip the auction, you never know when someone is selling off their collection. My suggestion is about discernment that gets refined as we grow in the hobby. When I used to go to the auction it was difficult to decide which tree of many I would bid on. Years later, I might find one tree of interest or more likely, none at all.

Also, everyone is getting rid of the bottom 10% of their collection. When someone has an excellent collection, their bottom percent is better than my top percent.

Bonsai is about problem solving, every tree has a hurdle to becoming better. Some hurdles are bigger than others. I see people bidding up certain trees with obvious hurdles and I wonder why they are paying so much for a 15-20 year project.

Like shopping for a house, find a house that doesn't show well, get a deal. People can't imagine the future, they only see the present. Auctions can be a great source of material, just don't bring home problems you can't or don't want to fix.
 

aml1014

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What I learned is that our club follows your practice.
Easy cure. Skip next year's auction.
The good trees, like good material in any hobby come from professionals who want repeat sales.
I sell trees every month at my club. They are younger trees that I've either grown from cutting/seed/or layer and used to learn many techniques. At least I've been planning to do this for a couple years so I've been able to develop them a bit and learn from them. At Mt club I'll sell these trees for dirt cheap to newer member and even some of the old school folk.
They are always happy and im happy to see that.
Well,

You never know. Sometimes a member may just want to downsize their collection a bit. And sell decent trees.
This is basically what I'm doing.
Propogate lots of trees, work on them, sell them for cheap.
Ill sell 40 trees for 5 bucks a piece, and then go any find me something of very high quality, I tend to like yamadori and have been able to afford some outstanding trees doing this, all at the same time I'm learning.
I don't agree with people selling problem trees, but I do understand selling lower quality stock.

Aaron
 

augustine

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I don't see a problem selling low quality material at an auction, beginners are happy to have them at cheap prices. However, unhealthy trees should not be sold without full disclosure and the more experienced members should provide guidance to the newbies.

In the auction in this area prices are so cheap that there is no harm done. I always work at my club's auctions if there were a "harmful" problem like health, infestation or disease I would speak up.

Will a mugo thrive in CA?
 
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