Bonsai forest material and tips

[SuperMarioZZZ]

I started to prepare for a future bonsai forest and I need to know where you guys find the right trees.

You collect them, you grow them or you buy directly good material?

For a big slab of 106 cm, trees are not cheap at all. I will need 3 very good trees which cost between 500 and 1,200 euro each. The rest are more affordable. I know only a few shops in Europe with good material but expensive:

- bonsai.de - great stuff but expensive
- bonsai-shop.com - so and so
- davidbenavente.com - very expensive

Do you know other european shops with great material?

So, how do you do it? How Walter Pall build that exceptional Hornbeam bonsai forest?

Which is the slab / trees ratio? For a big slab, I need big trees, but how big? I can find the ratio for only one tree in a pot.

Your help will be highly appreciated.

 

[sorce]

I would try to use cuttings from the same mother.
Or obtain the 3 trees and use them for propogating the smaller trees.

Sounds fun!

Share!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

FWIW, from what I understand, forest bonsai began in Japan after the war when good bonsai material was mostly scarce.

Forests rely on mass, not individual trunks, so less than perfect trees can be used that otherwise might not be good bonsai candidates by themselves.

Typically, I've used seedling bundles and grow them together. I don't look for individual forest trees.

Bundles of seedlings can be obtained from forest services or from bonsai nurseries. They're a lot less expensive than individual trees.

You can search for local sources with "bareroot seedlings" or "seedlings" or similar. See what comes up.

 

[SuperMarioZZZ]

If I get seedlings, it will develop into usable trees for my forest project in 5-10 years probably, and this will happen if I plant them directly in the ground.

My project includes a large slab - 106 cm, so I need bigger trees. As previously asked, how Walter Pall made the fantastic hornbeam bonsai forest?

Books or articles say nothing about the bonsai forest height - slab dimensions ratio. Which is the height of the main tree if I'm having a 106 cm slab?

Hope to get some help from you and start preparing the project. Every received help will be part of this future bonsai forest, it's like working together to build a house.

 

[Walter Pall]

That's how

 

[Walter Pall]

 

[Walter Pall]

Forget what they tell you. If you want a REALLY good forest you start with really good material. You must have about two to three times more trees than you eventually use. The rest can be another forest. You have all sizes similar material, prepared over many years. The material that I put into this forst was worth around ten grand before the start.

 

[SuperMarioZZZ]

Hi Walter,

I highly appreciate your message, you are my model in this hobby.

At the moment I don't have the right experience but I am getting better each month. The right way to start is to get good material and plant it into the ground to further grow it, right? Is Yamadori an option?

Preparing the trees brings me even more joy and will help me a lot to get more knowledge than buying ready made material.

Bonsai.de is having something good at 70-100 euro each tree, probably a good starting point. Are there other options in Germany? It's the best shop I have found worldwide on the internet.

For the ciment slab I am discussing with Erik Krizovensky, I found something that I like and it's 1,100 euro with transport and packaging. I'm ready to invest, I would love to take some bonsai courses but there is nothing in Romania. Considering spending a weekend each month in Germany right now. You organize courses, right?

Waht about the slab dimensions / forest height ratio?

Thank you for your time.

Vlad

 

[rockm]

Yeah, well, yeah, Walter...

Yes, "buy the best material you can " is a given, common sense.

However, material like Walter has posted is not all that common and extremely pricey if you find it. Most of us don't have access to that kind of stuff, or at least don't have the $$ to go in that direction.

And FWIW, seedlings don't produce instant forests as impressive as the one pictured, but if you start with bundled seedlings, you can make more compact plantings that mature together over time.

 

[Walter Pall]

Hi Walter,

I highly appreciate your message, you are my model in this hobby.

At the moment I don't have the right experience but I am getting better each month. The right way to start is to get good material and plant it into the ground to further grow it, right? Is Yamadori an option?

Preparing the trees brings me even more joy and will help me a lot to get more knowledge than buying ready made material.

Bonsai.de is having something good at 70-100 euro each tree, probably a good starting point. Are there other options in Germany? It's the best shop I have found worldwide on the internet.

For the ciment slab I am discussing with Erik Krizovensky, I found something that I like and it's 1,100 euro with transport and packaging. I'm ready to invest, I would love to take some bonsai courses but there is nothing in Romania. Considering spending a weekend each month in Germany right now. You organize courses, right?

Waht about the slab dimensions / forest height ratio?

Thank you for your time.

Vlad

Vlad,

I think for you the best and cheapest way is to collect lots of trees in the wild. What you need is not availablr on the net. There is no nursery in Europe that will have what I show. Not even close. You have to produce it yourself. Start collecting a certain species which is very common in your area. Do NOT plant the trees into the ground, but rather IN THE SMALLEST POSSIBLE CONTAINER.: Then develop you material and after a couple of years you could start. A slab by Erik is a very good idea. But this has time. You will need it in about four to six years form now. Such is bonsai if you take it for serious.

I do not have regular workshops in Europe, sorry.

 

[SuperMarioZZZ]

Thank you, Walter. I will start scouting for good yamadori and proceed exactly as you indicated me.

 

[barrosinc]

I was going to post how I prepare my beech forest from 11 trees that I am working on that go from 1cm to 3cm of trunk... and then I see Walter's post. Hahahja

 

[leatherback]

Considering spending a weekend each month in Germany right now. You organize courses, right?

You could look at bonsai museum dusseldorf. I think you can fly there direct from buchrest with eurowings. Werner Busch is an established bonsai grower, has fields of stock, and in some cases let you keep trees in his nursery if you are a student there.

 

[SuperMarioZZZ]

You could look at bonsai museum dusseldorf. I think you can fly there direct from buchrest with eurowings. Werner Busch is an established bonsai grower, has fields of stock, and in some cases let you keep trees in his nursery if you are a student there.

Can I join the courses as an english speaker? The website is only in german from what I see.

 

[leatherback]

Can I join the courses as an english speaker? The website is only in german from what I see.

Hm.. I do not think so. Have not noticed anythinh in English

 

[Walter Pall]

I doubt that you can find what you want in any nursery in Europe unless you want to just play with trees to form a forest.

 

[SuperMarioZZZ]

I doubt that you can find what you want in any nursery in Europe unless you want to just play with trees to form a forest.

My intention is to make a great bonsai forest and I am ready to invest time and money.

Regarding nursery trees, what do you think about this one? For me looks fine but I don’t have great experience. The cost is big, it is 2,800 euro.

 

[sparklemotion]

Which is the slab / trees ratio? For a big slab, I need big trees, but how big? I can find the ratio for only one tree in a pot.

I don't think there is a slab:number of trees ratio. There is a slab:canopy size ratio, and it's about the same for a single tree or a forest. Your 1 meter slab could look good with 3-9 beefy trees on it, or with 50 pencil thick ones.

Resources for learning about forest design:

• Thomas L. Zane, Intermediate Bonsai, A Course Syllabus (chapter 10) (link to free PDF)
• Saburo Kato, Forest, Rock Planting, and Ezo Spruce Bonsai (link to buy)
• Bill Valvanis' blog post about creating beech forests (link)
• Hiroshi Takeyama Demo at the 2017 World Bonsai Convention (youtube link)

However, if you are determined to invest thousands of dollars putting together your first forest, I will suggest that you might be better off spending those thousands to commission Walter (or someone of his level) to create something for you with $500 worth of material than spending those thousands on material for your own use.

 

[Tieball]

I’ve not made a forest yet. If I did decide to start one....I’d collect small trees of one species, probably 11 to 15 trees, maybe more, and start growing and caring for them. Not all the trees will work great in the forest plan. Most likely native trees to the area....not just “works in my zone” trees. I’d have forests all around me for reference. I’d start to grow some trees together really close....really close...so the roots blend and I’d get an idea of how I handle group canopies. I’d also just build a very shallow wooden box to what ever size I wanted....and it wouldn’t need to be completely square or even just four sides...could be five or seven sides. I’d be ready to spend more on a slab or pot once I knew what I have grown. For me, an inexperienced forester, a slab would create watering and climate challenges not needed at my learning stage. After learning...I’d graduate to more material.

 

[Johnathan]

I really, really hate to be the technical question guy but I've recently taken a liking to a forest idea, mainly due to having 5 rooted shimp cuttings in small tray pots and another 1 gallon shimp in a pond basket, that I will root cuttings from also. Needed a way to condense the space and forest popped into my mind, and now @Tieball has pretty much wrote the entire idea out for me that I had in my head already. Even more precise. Thank you for the blueprint! lol

My question though, is just how many trees does it take to construct or be considered as a forest instead of "grouping"?

Also, just out of curiosity, @Walter Pall how much does that weigh??? Its quite stunning.