Bonsai Nut's personal pine entry thread

Adair M

Pinus Envy
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I see what you are saying. But in BT#12 or BT#20 wasnt it part of the technique to let the with bite in a bit after the first time wiring to promote bark growth. Just curious cause I just put my 2 year old in colanders and wired them for the first time. Should I let wire bite in some? Will it help with trunk bark.
I have no idea if the BT magazine says to let the wire bite in. Regardless, I think it’s a poor technique. JBP produce good bark all on their own. Much faster than white pines. There’s really no need. Especially when overdoing it by accident would permanently scar the tree.

The whole point of the seedling cutting technique is to produce superior trees. Trees with great nebari, and low branches. If you’ve got that, why deface the tree with artificial wire scars?
 

RobertB

Chumono
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well i wired a ton of trees and was only able to remove half before it was to late
 

ysrgrathe

Shohin
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I see what you are saying. But in BT#12 or BT#20 wasnt it part of the technique to let the with bite in a bit after the first time wiring to promote bark growth. Just curious cause I just put my 2 year old in colanders and wired them for the first time. Should I let wire bite in some? Will it help with trunk bark.
My interpretation of the BT article was more like post #103 than post #117. Although even on #117 I have had luck removing the wire. It may kill the tree, it will definitely scar it (although differently than if the wire remains embdeded), but sometimes the result can be interesting.
 

Toraidento

Shohin
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I have no idea if the BT magazine says to let the wire bite in. Regardless, I think it’s a poor technique. JBP produce good bark all on their own. Much faster than white pines. There’s really no need. Especially when overdoing it by accident would permanently scar the tree.

The whole point of the seedling cutting technique is to produce superior trees. Trees with great nebari, and low branches. If you’ve got that, why deface the tree with artificial wire scars?
In the BT article it says to let the wire bite in slightly on the very first wiring in the second year when the are potted to colanders. The author states that by doing this one that very first wiring it will promote bark to form. I'm guessing this is the tree attempting to heal the slight scaring from the wire.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
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In the BT article it says to let the wire bite in slightly on the very first wiring in the second year when the are potted to colanders. The author states that by doing this one that very first wiring it will promote bark to form. I'm guessing this is the tree attempting to heal the slight scaring from the wire.
“Slightly” is a rather vague term, isn’t it? It can mean different things to different people.

Also, that Bonsai Today article was translated from Japanese to Spanish, and the translated again from Spanish to English.

So, while it’s a great guide, there may be room for “interpretation”.
 

DirkvanDreven

Shohin
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I once forgot to take the wire of a Larch seedling. One year old seedlings were wired and ground grown. After one year already the thin wire was gone. Now, three or four years later only a light spiral shows in the bark. But if you don't know you probably can't tell. Think it will be completely gone in another year or two.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
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Bark is dead.

To create bark you must just kill the cambium.

This can happen faster in patches, since an additional dead layer is present.

It doesn't require leaving the wire in.

Sorce
 
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I see what you are saying. But in BT#12 or BT#20 wasnt it part of the technique to let the with bite in a bit after the first time wiring to promote bark growth. Just curious cause I just put my 2 year old in colanders and wired them for the first time. Should I let wire bite in some? Will it help with trunk bark.
You need to decide what you want to produce, try it both ways and see which you like
 
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Growing like crazy. Having problems because some of the pines in the interiors of the trays are getting shaded out by the pines on the exterior and are not growing as quickly. I may split them up into every other row (with empty soil-filled containers between rows) so that all pines get a little more sun and fresh air. Wire is getting deeply embedded. Some of the fatter pines are getting close to finger width at the wire swelling locations.

View attachment 252975

View attachment 252976

View attachment 252977
You are creating to much shade with the long needles above the “shohin” zone. All the little buds you want growing are in the shade, as your leader extends cut those needles short as the next candle extends. You will get the buds down low moving. I start cutting needles the second year and it also keeps weight down on sacrifice leader helping your pot have more stability and won’t rock the plants root system in the small pots we use. I have some 4’ pines in 5”x7” pots Side by side with buds all over the bases
 

AnthonyB

Sapling
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New to the forum and just sifting my way through some of the interesting threads. In case anyone is looking to start, I coincidentally ordered 1000 JBP seeds from Rare Palm Seeds back in December and then scarified/stratified 110, split them between planting in soil and the paper towel method.

The paper towel method won for germination rate, 47/55 were germinating after 3 weeks on my light table so I just planted those. I think I got a little over half that from soil. I guess I can join the party now, if a little late ...

(Altho I was thinking before this I might distribute most of them to members of my bonsai club in the fall, let everyone have fun with them and compare notes once a year)
 

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rollwithak

Chumono
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New to the forum and just sifting my way through some of the interesting threads. In case anyone is looking to start, I coincidentally ordered 1000 JBP seeds from Rare Palm Seeds back in December and then scarified/stratified 110, split them between planting in soil and the paper towel method.

The paper towel method won for germination rate, 47/55 were germinating after 3 weeks on my light table so I just planted those. I think I got a little over half that from soil. I guess I can join the party now, if a little late ...

(Altho I was thinking before this I might distribute most of them to members of my bonsai club in the fall, let everyone have fun with them and compare notes once a year)

Did you just have them in a ziplock bag on your light table? After having them in the fridge? I just tried 50 and got no success.
 

AnthonyB

Sapling
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Did you just have them in a ziplock bag on your light table? After having them in the fridge? I just tried 50 and got no success.
I scarified about 120 in room temp water overnight, 18 hours later most of those sank. All the sinkers (110) were put into a ziplock with a mix of damp perlite, sphagnum moss and crab sand. They sat in a fridge for about 11-12 weeks.

I then planted 55 in soil and took the other 55 and placed them in a folded damp paper towel which I placed in a ziplock and put on my light table. The ambient temp on the light table was in the mid to high 70s during the day, probably dropping into the 60s at night.

They had nearly all germinated by about 3 weeks after that.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
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So here's where I am today. I am just now starting to repot my pines - work that should have been complete a couple of months ago. Additionally I don't have all of my supplies... even most of my wire is still in California, to say nothing of my garbage cans of pumice, etc. So we will see how successful I am going forward, knowing I have to cut some corners

Not having access to colanders, I am going with 10" pond baskets. Worse still, I don't have access to large quantities of inorganic soil mix, so I am going with an organic mix that includes a high percentage of pine bark. Don't try this in a bonsai pot - you will turn your root ball into a brick! But I am hoping I can get away with it for a season in a pond basket.

Scarifying the base of the trunk with wire has yielded tons of low buds. In cases where I can clip off the wire, I have done so. In many of the seedlings the wire is almost completely embedded. I still have 2.5 years now for the second round of growth, and to start developing my branches.

20pine1.jpg

I thought I had 40 left... guess I have 44 :) These are my first 12 that were a little smaller than the others because they didn't get the same level of attention / care as my best 32. I keep running out of supplies. I went to my local Lowes and bought all their pond baskets, and have to go to another store tomorrow to get more. I am dying because I know I have at least 40 Anderson flats and 100 pond baskets in California :(

20pine2.jpg
 
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geekyalias

Seedling
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Just been enjoying this thread, but I’m wondering, where I am, my pine street are a bit behind yours, but I read somewhere it was the right time to repot. Is it really a risk to repot now?
 

rollwithak

Chumono
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Just been enjoying this thread, but I’m wondering, where I am, my pine street are a bit behind yours, but I read somewhere it was the right time to repot. Is it really a risk to repot now?
What zone are you in? How hot is it? Early spring is the time.
 

geekyalias

Seedling
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What zone are you in? How hot is it? Early spring is the time.
It’s been hot but it looks a bit cooler the next couple o f weeks, I am in the uk, in the north, near Leeds. The needles are just starting to define from the candles.
 

rollwithak

Chumono
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It’s been hot but it looks a bit cooler the next couple o f weeks, I am in the uk, in the north, near Leeds. The needles are just starting to define from the candles.
You might want to let someone more experienced answer but from my research and reading, I feel as though it would be recommended to leave repotting to cooler months, typically early spring. If you absolutely must do it now, I’d leave the roots alone as much as possible. Best of luck my friend.
 

Pitoon

Imperial Masterpiece
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So here's where I am today. I am just now starting to repot my pines - work that should have been complete a couple of months ago. Additionally I don't have all of my supplies... even most of my wire is still in California, to say nothing of my garbage cans of pumice, etc. So we will see how successful I am going forward, knowing I have to cut some corners

Not having access to colanders, I am going with 10" pond baskets. Worse still, I don't have access to large quantities of inorganic soil mix, so I am going with an organic mix that includes a high percentage of pine bark. Don't try this in a bonsai pot - you will turn your root ball into a brick! But I am hoping I can get away with it for a season in a pond basket.

Scarifying the base of the trunk with wire has yielded tons of low buds. In cases where I can clip off the wire, I have done so. In many of the seedlings the wire is almost completely embedded. I still have 2.5 years now for the second round of growth, and to start developing my branches.

View attachment 304225

I thought I had 40 left... guess I have 44 :) These are my first 12 that were a little smaller than the others because they didn't get the same level of attention / care as my best 32. I keep running out of supplies. I went to my local Lowes and bought all their pond baskets, and have to go to another store tomorrow to get more. I am dying because I know I have at least 40 Anderson flats and 100 pond baskets in California :(

View attachment 304228

You was able to find 44 pond baskets locally or did you order them online?
 

rollwithak

Chumono
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It’s been hot but it looks a bit cooler the next couple o f weeks, I am in the uk, in the north, near Leeds. The needles are just starting to define from the candles.
There you have it dude. @Bonsai Nut is reporting his now and he is in warm California also (I think) so it would appear you’re good to do so.
 
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